Spouseclub Archive Excerpt No. 7

Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 7
(Editor’s Note: This seventh in a continuing series of samplings from the “Spousechat” message board includes postings that describe Ms. And Mr. Lynda’s honeymoon and their life as newlyweds.)

MS. LYNDA
We got back late last night from the first leg of our honeymoon. We leave Wednesday to go on our cruise. I am so in love with Mr. Lynda. The first part of the honeymoon could not have been any better. We were both thinking a lot about you [Mr. Lisa] on Wednesday evening. How did your program go with Ms. Catherine? I want details. I do not know if it will happen, but, a friend attended our wedding last week and was shocked that the local newspaper did not want to report our ceremony since my husband took my last name. She is going to write an article and see if it can be published in an area newspaper from a bigger city. She has a degree in journalism. I will let you know if the article gets in her paper so you can read it. She thinks it is wonderful that my husband took my last name and that our formal family address will be Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ.

MR. LISA
First of all, congratulations on your marriage. I really think you are at the forefront of defining the new female/male relationship. I would love to read about your wedding. My presentation went great. Lisa wrote me a short talk which I gave which basically detailed the premise of our relationship. As expected the questions from the women were many. I did my best to answer them. Of course, being a feminist group, all of the women were very pleased and very supportive. They really enjoyed the fact that I was openly called Mr. Lisa S. and many of them commented on the statement that made. I treated Catherine in a very subservient manner all evening, of course her friends noticed this and thought it was fantastic. Towards the end of August, the group is having an end of summer pool party. Catherine asked me if I would mind being the waiter/attendant for this party. Of course I said yes, as long as Lisa agreed. Lisa agreed to it and she will attend as well. In addition, I have to put the entire party together as well as being the waiter/attendant for it. I actually can't wait.

MS. LYNDA
I am so happy to hear that your program went well because it sets another new standard for women and men to strive [to reach]. For the August party, you should enlist the help of several men to be the waitstaff for the women. You could be their servants for the day and experience what all men should experience. Can you imagine how enlightened their husbands and sons would be if they had to serve the women?

MS. LYNDA
We have returned from both parts of our honeymoon. I would like to respond to a couple of your concerns. Yes, we did go through with the ceremony as reported, but, it was just for fun. Both Preston and I have taken the viewpoint that if you cannot convince them, join them. We still have lots of friends who consider me the Bitch Supreme and Preston as the most whipped man in America. Some fail to see that we truly love each other deeply and on many more levels than some married couples experience. While I claim my right to be head of the household, Preston had a say. (I am not sure I could have married a man who would not surrender the leadership to me, but it would have been difficult not to negotiate with Preston.)
Since arriving home, he has had a lovely meal prepared for every evening. We spend time talking, sharing, and loving. He is a human being who deserves my respect and love; he has given me so much. I am also giving him some stability he has not had before in his life. The cost to him for me is his surrender, support, subordinate status in the home, and his submissive nature. We chose our roles together and with clear knowledge of what we are doing. I hope this clears up a little of the fun we had in creating something funny for our wedding. Some of you should consider doing the same. When I hear friends tell about the tensions they had close to the wedding day, I am so happy that we had so little stress. Is that because a woman was in charge? I do not know. It may just be.

MS. LYNDA
Arrived back from the cruise and it was wonderful. My new boss and her staff had chartered the boat for the cruise. We had some work assignments, but the men were able to serve us while we were on the cruise. All the women of this company have husbands who make less money and who must attend to most of the domestic chores. All the women were jealous of me since my husband took my last name and that we are introduced as Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ. (Some people even forgot his first name and referred to him as Mr. Lynda all the time.) The serious work is now ahead of us as we begin our normal day to day life together. We did have our first letter written to us as Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ. We also got our first bill addressed to Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ. I cannot tell you how thrilling it is to have my leadership acknowledged. Keep me informed.

MR. SARAH
The word "man" has traditionally been associated with a number of traits that define a human male. I, however, find these traits to be confining, stereotypical, oppressive, and insulting to any man who understands the benefits of submitting to a woman's control.
In my relationship, my wife (I don't like to use the term "my wife" because it implies ownership) makes the decisions. She has complete control over the financial aspect of our marriage, and even the domestic aspect. Although I take care of the housework, new changes to the house are not made without her permission. I also dress as she says and have even had my facial hair removed permanently at her direction. I am offended when people say she is "the man of the house" because of the use of the word "man." Or when people tell me to, "be a man."
That is why I propose inventing a new word to represent our true state. A word that is positive but yet escapes the old fashioned beliefs of how a man is supposed to behave. Any suggestions?

ANOTHER MR. HER
I am the husband of a very important woman, and I have become Mr. Her with few problems. We do need a new vocabulary. While not perfect, I do have a starting point. Ms. and Herb. Herb stands for Her Boy. It acknowledges her ownership instead of the male's ownership. He belongs to her and is required to obey her. It might be shortened to Hrb. It does speak volumes when we put Ms. first. Are you actually known as Mr. Sarah? It has been great finding other men who have adopted both the wife's first name and last name for the family. I also agree with not using "my wife" as often as we do. Have any of you used "Woman and husband"? We did at our wedding ceremony, and I noticed that Ms. Lynda and her husband did the same. That little thing speaks volumes also. Here is to the Women who rule the nest. May a vocabulary develop that will be matriarchal and matrilineal.

MR. LISA
Congratulations, Ms. Lynda, from the sound of things, your marriage is certainly on the right track. I have been busy tending to my household duties and planning the party for Catherine's organization. I'm basically done with all the plans. I found a woman owned catering company to cater the affair and, at Catherine's request, all waiters/servers will be males. They will be the only males at the party other than me, of course. I have not yet been told what my duties will be on the actual day of the party. Lisa will be attending the party as her mother's guest. The women of the group will get a first hand look at a true female centered relationship (other than possibly their own). Lisa and Catherine have been playfully "arguing" about who "gets" me for the party, so I've got a feeling I'm going to be someone's personal waiter or something like that, either Lisa's or Catherine's, depending on who wins the "argument." I hope it's Lisa, Catherine enjoys embarrassing me just a little bit too much. But either way, I'll accept it and do a good job.

MS. LYNDA
Perhaps your service to Catherine's group could become a monthly thing. You could be dismissed when serious business was to be discussed. (We do not want our handsome men worrying over trivial details better handled by the women in their lives.) Seriously, it is a good idea. Husbands could be the hosts and serve. This might be payback for all the poker party duties some women have had. Secondly, I think men could learn a lot from the experience. If nothing else, being dismissed because serious matters are up for discussion might be a revelation for most men. I was at a business meeting / supper at my boss' house. It was funny when she said the men could go into the den and enjoy drinks, television, etc., while the women went to work. I do not want to appear like a dislike men because I love them, but it is justice, even if in small amounts. Comments from anyone?


MS. LYNDA
Did you get the idea that many of the women in Catherine's group were the head of their households? Did any of them have their husbands take their name in marriage, stay home while they worked, etc.? Was the catering service able to supply the male waiters because the men were employees, or did she have to contract for them? Did she have a difficult time getting the men to serve as waiters? Do you think some of the husbands of the feminist group would have been willing to serve as waiters? At another get together, Lisa, Catherine and you should lead by example. After what I have gone through the last week with some meetings where men are workshop leaders and speak only in masculine terms, it would be a real learning experience for men to have to live in a woman's world for just a few hours. It might truly change some minds if men had to identify themselves only by their wife's name ("This is Mr. Susan Brown") and by her station in life ("He is so lucky; his wife is a world famous doctor. Oh, he has some kind of outside job.”) Mr. Lisa and any of you men out there: Does any of this have meaning for you?

MR. LISA
Ms. Lynda, I did get the impression from some of the married women in the group that they were head of their households. However, although many of them kept their own names, none of them had husbands who took their names. The caterer who I worked with basically had a list of individuals who worked for her, there were a number of males on the list. She did question why I wanted only male waiters, and I simply told her that those were my instructions from the woman who is hosting the party. I totally agree with you about the use of male terms in everyday life. It is unfortunate that even today this still exists. It would be quite humbling for these men to known by their wives' accomplishments. I'm sure that you and Mr. Lynda could serve as real examples for these men and their wives. For example, if someone asks what your husband does, you could say "Oh, he just stays at home, he's just a househusband." Have Mr. Lynda join you for lunch sometime with these men, let them see a female centered relationship first hand, get together with their wives, bring Mr. Lynda, let their wives see first hand. Eventually these men will be working for you anyway, Ms. Lynda.

MS. LYNDA
You are so right. Most of these men will be reporting to me within the year. Thankfully, my immediate superiors are all women. I am gaining quite a reputation. I let one of the presenters have it when he asked how I felt about his presentation. I asked him how he would like being ignored in language. He came to my office the next day and expressed his apologies. I know that you are Charles most of the time. You are Mr. Lisa when being addressed formally. My husband will also keep his masculine name forever. However, I do intend to always address him as Mr. Lynda in public. Someone must begin to set some new standards.
How are you going to have the waiters dress? You should get a crest of the women's club and have each boy wear it on his shirt. He would then begin to feel what it is like to be owned. If I were doing the party, I would have handsome boys in skimpy bathing suits and Chippendale collars and cuffs. I would also refer to the waiters as "boy" and "my boy". For far too long, we have been the girls. There is an element of humiliation in this for the boys, but I would also do it to make a point. Justice is justice. Ponder what we women have gone through for so long. Mr. Lynda brought me breakfast in bed again today. He was completely naked. What a sight! He also knelt to serve me. Who could ask for anything more?

MR. LISA
Catherine wants all the waiters in white shorts, shirts and shoes, kind of like a resort atmosphere. I'm supposed to wear the same "uniform". My job at the party will to remain at Catherine's side as her personal waiter for the afternoon/evening. Lisa thinks this will be a good experience for me, it will allow many of the women in Catherine's group to observe as Catherine socializes with them. I have found that Catherine has no problem with my embarrassment or humiliation. Lisa says it should not be humiliating to me to have to serve in this manner, and I guess it isn't really. We will see what happens. As far as being called "boy", I remember my former boss used to refer to me as her "boy" and it did make a point with me. It sure sounds like Mr. Lynda is doing a good job pleasing you.

MS. LYNDA
I am interested in knowing what you consider "humiliating". Everyone must get in touch with their feelings. Women have been just as unwilling to share those feelings. I am humiliated every time some man calls me "girl" or something. If men experience the same feelings, perhaps we will grow from the experience. I know a man who resents having to call his bosses "Ma'am". What has Catherine and / or Lisa done to "put you in your place"? Did you deserve the treatment because you were getting too big an ego?

MR. LISA
Well, for example, Lisa was trying on some skirts at a department store. The saleswoman was assisting her and I was sitting in the "husbands" chair with Lisa's packages, purse, etc. The saleswoman was looking at the skirt Lisa had on and said that perhaps she should try a size 4. Lisa, without even looking in my direction, points in my direction and snaps her fingers. I immediately go to her and she simply says "go find this in a size 4". The saleswoman smiled and I heard her say, "boy, he sure is handy." I felt embarrassed and objectified at the time. But in thinking about it, women have been subject to this type of treatment before, and like you say, Ms. Lynda, justice is justice. This is just one example, there are countless others. Lisa's mother does insist on being called "ma'am" by me, and I know I will have to do this for the party in front of all of her group members and some of her friends as well. But, deep down, I know she deserves this respect, although it's a little embarrassing.

MS. LYNDA
Thank you for answering my question. Mr. Lynda has not found his comfort level yet. He is very eager to please and says he has not found a situation that was humiliating and degrading to him as a male. Please remember, he was (is) a theatre major and enjoys the dramatic. That is why so many of our pre-wedding parties worked so well. I was kind of surprised at the things that make you feel humiliated. I would think that any man in a subordinate position would enjoy calling his wife's mother, "Ma'am", and would not be concerned with what people thought when he accompanied his wife on a shopping trip. In some respects, you were only doing the gentlemanly thing by going and fetching for your wife. How many times have we seen this in reverse? I would have thought humiliation would be if Catherine forced you to keep your eyes cast to the floor when you are not serving, perhaps kneeling before her and Lisa, etc. As I said, everyone is entitled to their expressions of what humiliates them. As more women take an active role in family leadership, we will see what begins to be the traditions to show women in charge.
On our honeymoon, we had some "antique" pictures taken. In olden times, you could tell that the man was in charge because he was always seated. His wife stood behind or beside him. My husband and I reversed it. I sat and he stood. It is a subtle thing, but it is not missed on us and some of our friends. Secondly, we took a busy and full bus into a resort town off the ship. I made him sit. As head of the family, I must protect him and his honor. This reversal was noticed by several people. Finally, all reservations are made in my name and I produce the credit card. This is not so unusual because women carry purses. However, several hosts remarked on the reservation being made in my name. My husband was only too happy to inform them that I was head of the family, the "breadwinner", and that he had taken my name in marriage. I do not know what they thought or said behind our backs, but they all treated us with respect and said our decision was, "Cool."
You did make the statement in one of your messages that not all of the women in Catherine's group are married. Because of your demonstration, do you think some may demand that their boyfriends take their name in marriage? After all, this is a feminist group. We need to spread the word. Do you feel you helped some women make a stronger decision to lead in their relationships? If so, what do you think will be the result? Has Lisa or Catherine ever sexually humiliated you?
When Mr. Lynda and I had an argument once, I got even when we were with some friends. They were bragging about their boyfriends. With Preston sitting next to me, I told my friends (both male and female) that Mr. Lynda gives the best oral sex in the world. I know it might be a little tacky, but I was insulted by the men who so freely spoke of blow jobs. The women giggled and told me how lucky I was. The men got very quiet. This was one time when Preston told me he was shocked by my behavior. However, I told him that I might just do it again if I felt the urge. All he could say was, "Yes, Ma'am!" It has gotten back to me that several of the men quizzed Preston about what he does that so pleases me. There may have been some benefits to my outrageous behavior. Looking forward to your next post. I also invite other men to comment. I hope you see less BDSM in this and more loving, even though it is the woman's way!

MR. LISA
You are correct, Ms. Lynda, perhaps my comfort level is a bit low. While it does seem somewhat embarrassing to have to answer "yes Ma'am" to Catherine, nonetheless I do it without complaint. Also, when shopping with Lisa, I cater to her every demand without the slightest complaint. I even get on my knees and take off and put on her shoes for her when she is shoe shopping. Once, a saleswoman was joking with Lisa as I was trying a pair of shoes on her. The saleswoman asked if Lisa makes me kiss her feet, so I playfully kissed Lisa's instep, both of them were entertained by this. I'm also on my knees before both Lisa and Catherine when I do their pedicures. I only bring these things out as examples of slightly humiliating situations. Sure, if Lisa wanted to, she could really come up with some really humiliating situations, and I would comply without complaint. But, neither of us likes to be in the spotlight too much when it comes to that. Catherine, on the other hand, does not mind the spotlight. I can only imagine what a shopping trip with her would be like.
I think most of the unmarried members of Catherine's group are of the mind that they will be in charge of their relationship. The feedback from my presentation was that the women were totally impressed by the fact that Lisa is the boss. I found that they were particularly impressed with the fact that Lisa totally controls all of the finances, that I have no access to the bank accounts, and that all financial matters are decided by Lisa. Many of these women earn large salaries, and I know they were "taking notes" regarding our financial arrangement. I hope I have answered your questions, Ms. Lynda. So, now that you are married, Ms. Lynda, what do you have planned for your husband to make him even more devoted to serving you? What additional things will he be doing for you to further your career, and make your home life easier and more convenient?

MS. LYNDA
Again, thank you for answering my questions so completely. We are inventing ourselves as a couple every day. Mr. Lynda creates a great home atmosphere, cooks good meals, and is tireless in his appreciation of me. I am probably seen as a very selfish person. I do not lift a finger at home. I lounge around while Mr. Lynda does all the work. For the fun of it, I have had him serve me while he was completely naked. He is so handsome. A naked man can be a real turn on. I love to see him grovel before me, kiss my feet and other parts of my body. It makes me feel so powerful. While BDSM has little place in our relationship, I am sure I am seen as the Great Bitch. Mr. Lynda has not had too much experience in serving as a corporate spouse, but he is very willing to do dinner parties, cocktail parties, etc. He has always been successful for the ones he has done. This will become a regular part of his life. I never want to hurt or abuse him, but, I do enjoy letting other people know that I am the boss.
It was so much fun during our honeymoon to have all the reservations made in my name and in Ms. and Mr. Lynda BJ. Another thing that has proven to be wonderful is that his outside career will be dependent upon me. He would like to work with a theatre. It will be my great pleasure to finance his employment. In other words, he will be my employee and I will be his boss even at work. Of course, I do not intend to have his work conflict with his duties as a househusband.
When Ms. Lisa does her taxes, does she list herself as the Head of Household? Does she list your profession as 'Househusband'? Have you ever double dated with Ms. Lisa and Catherine? How does she treat her dates? Does she ever use the services of a houseboy for her domestic duties? I know I am getting extremely personal, but do you see cunnilingus as a duty for you to perform on Ms. Lisa, an act of humiliation that proves her superiority, etc.? I know there is always a need for discretion because most people would not understand our life, but are you open in your support in front of other men? Do they know that Ms. Lisa is the head of your household? Are you teased by them for being "pussywhipped"? Lately, I have had the experience of men being envious of Mr. Lynda. Do you find that the men in Ms. Lisa's office would gladly marry their boss, stay home, and be a good domestic for their wife while she fosters her career? Since you have been married for a little while, how do you let people know that Ms. Lisa did not take your last name?
After a while, people just assume things. Is it wrong to want people to know that Mr. Lynda took my name in marriage? Of all the lovely things Mr. Lynda has done for me, this is the greatest because it tells the world that he sees me as the head. Have you sent out any letters with the new letterhead? How are people reacting? When you choose professional services, do you use women doctors, lawyers, etc.? Mr. Lynda and I are getting to know some like minded couples as people get acquainted with us. The group is extremely small. Have you experienced the same? As always, I enjoy hearing what you have to say. I would really like to hear from Catherine or Ms. Lisa also. You give courage to Mr. Lynda. He is willing to try so much because there are other men out there like him. And I do enjoy hearing from other men who have the same life, or who desire it.

MS. LYNDA
I cherish my new husband. While you may feel he is weak, I know him to be strong and creative. I also knew that from our first meeting, I had more common sense, more ability in the work world, and more career drive. It is my great pleasure to have him as a husband who supports me in ways other than financial. Finally, I do not know how to say this to you gentlemen, but, it may just happen that you will someday have to report to a woman boss, take direction from a woman, etc. I once asked a male soldier how he responded to having a woman head his fort. He said, "You say, Yes, Ma'am every time you see her and you salute her." I will continue my battles as long as I have them. I know I am not always correct. I know that I come across to many of you as a "Bitch Supreme", but, I also know myself very well. I am the New Woman. I want the responsibility. I want the pros and cons that come with it. I will handle it just fine. And I will have a nice guy waiting for me to help me cope with every new battle that comes my way. I hope some other women and men will respond to what I have written. However, it does not matter. I know I am on the correct path for myself and my family.

MR. LYNDA
I am not so sure I can be as nice as Ms. Lynda. I cannot believe how hostile some men are about women who take leadership roles. I think the most important point that Ms. Lynda has made in her very complete discussion is you make your observations in a world that is still run by men for the most part. Except for Martha Stewart, I am not reading lots about the screwups of female CEOs. I am not aware of how female bosses have cheated their workers out of benefits. I have read about male executives being guilty of these things. Your points only support the ideals of a woman run country, business, etc. since we are in such a sorry state due to male leadership. If women do take over, men may have to be on their toes and will finally do a better than average job. Be careful about thinking you know me and the kind of relationship I want with my wife. We came to most of our decisions after serious talks. Some of the things we did as wedding rites were to push people's faces into the mess. I have truly been happy supporting my new wife's career. Yes, I kneel before her every morning as I serve her coffee and breakfast. She is the willing partner eager to face the jungle of the workworld. Thank you Ms. Lynda. I acknowledge you as my Head and Boss. Long may you reign.

(End of Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 7 – to be continued)

On Vacation...

Back the last week of August.

Married to the Boss

Awhile back I posted a little something here called “Direct Report to the Boss Lady” (October, 21, 2008). I quoted couples who avoid arguments over money by the simple expedient of having the wife assume complete financial control. You know, the wife is installed as “boss” at home, with the husband kind of like her “direct report.” Common result: instant domestic harmony plus a steady uptick in fiscal responsibility and financial health.

But there is a subset of wife-led marriages where the wife is not only the boss at home, but on the job. You might think this is stretching the wife-led thing to the breaking point, but you’d be wrong, judging from the many message board postings I’ve seen and saved. I’ll start with several from the Spousechat Excerpts posted here recently:

HUSBAND:
I know a woman lawyer whose husband works for his wife as an investigator. However, he is home in time to prepare and serve meals. Three women own their own real estate business, and their husbands work as agents for their wives. Another woman owns the family car leasing business. Her husband is her mechanic. I could go on and on with different stories.

ANOTHER HUSBAND:
My wife is a lawyer. She hires me regularly to do depositions. She is the boss at work and at home. It is wonderful! Men in that position should enjoy!

WIFE:
My husband is a researcher in a business founded by my father. I am now the CEO. I am his boss at work and at home. We have few problems. If I fire him, he can stay at home and do his other work. It is great!

Regular readers will also recall the many postings from Spousechat mainstay, Charles, aka “Mr. Lisa,” who was introduced to his future wife (and boss) by his then-boss, a powerful female real estate agent:

“I [was] an assistant to one of the busiest agents in the entire area, I mean she had years where she sold $25 million. This is the woman who introduced me to Lisa. This woman exuded sexual power, in the way she dressed and in her actions, but never directed it towards me. I wish she had. She treated me professionally. It was usually the younger agents in the office who would make the sexual innuendoes and jokes. I took it all in stride. Anyway, any men who want to see what it's like to work in a female dominated business should try working for a real estate agency. I'll tell you, it really prepared me for my marriage.”

After marrying Charles, Lisa had him resign from his office job to become her full-time househusband. Later on, as he tells it, she gave him a chance, briefly, to go back to work—for her:

“Yesterday, I told Lisa that I would be willing to fill in for her assistant for the second two weeks in July. Lisa had already assumed that I would, as I said, she was very insistent upon it, almost demanding that I do it. Also, I will still be expected to do all of the housework, and give her the personal services she has become accustomed to… Although I worked for women for years, I am still intimidated at the prospect of working for Lisa, not to mention the other women in her office.”

I recall logging on to the Spousechat message board each day during this time to see how Charles’ temp stint was working out. He kept us posted:


“In the office, Lisa can be playful, and it is her office, she even owns the building. She has joked around a little with me, saying things like ‘If you want to get ahead in my company, you'll have to perform under the boss’s desk.’ So, who knows what may happen? I can only hope.”

“The first day, yesterday, was tough. Lisa is an unbelievably busy woman and keeping up with her instructions is a difficult task, I made a lot of mistakes. Then, of course, when I got home, there were all of my other tasks at home to do. I worked till midnight.”

“I think I did OK for my first week, although I was chastised for forgetting a few personal tasks she told me to do. Like yesterday, I was supposed to pick up her dress at the cleaners, but I forgot… I want to re-dedicate myself to making Lisa's home life even more enjoyable.”

Another househusband regularly quoted on this blog, Au876, confided a similar experience to fellow wife-worshippers on Lady Misato’s original Husbands’ Forum:

“My wife is thinking about going into a business with two other ladies starting next year. She is planning to be the senior partner putting up 51% of the funds (she has done very well on her investments). She wants to keep her present job as she makes good money and has good benefits. She is talking about making me quit my job and work for her. Actually she says I would be more or less working for the other two ladies since she wouldn't have much time to devote to the business in person.
“She hasn't made up her mind yet on any of it for sure. She did say she would let me decide if I would give up my job and work for her, and my decision would be a major factor as to whether or not she invests in the business. I don't really want too give up my job. However, what I make only amounts to about 25% of our total income and she thinks she can make a lot more from the business. I have to let her know before year end.”

Fdhousehusband, whose discontinued blog is keenly missed by many of us, faced a similar crossroads. As I recall it, his wife had recommended “fd” to a female friend of hers to work on a trial basis at a nonprofit. Fd turned in such a conscientious performance that the woman offered him a full time position:

Fd agonized over this decision, because, like Charles, he knew he would not be excused from any of his househusbandly duties just because he was working full-time. What should he do? Fd asked his wife for her guidance:

“She addressed me like a schoolteacher. ‘When making a difficult choice, it is always best to analyze the pros and cons. On the pro side, if you take the job, I'll have more money to spend and a girl can never have enough shoes. For you, you get out of the house and the opportunity to do something useful, besides cleaning my toilets, that is…
"’On the con side, you will be a lot busier, so there will be less time on the computer and less down time for you. Also, with more to do, you probably will let more things fall through the cracks and that means I will have to punish you more. Remember, this new job is not an excuse for neglecting your chores.’"

As was usually the case, fd’s wife took the initiative and, via phone calls and faxes with her woman friend at the nonprofit, negotiated conditions for her husband’s employment that would allow him to keep up all his domestic duties through a combination of regular office hours, flex time and telecommuting from home.

Fd read the resulting document and saw that it contained everything he could have wanted in a job outside the home. “i then realized that these two powerful Womyn [fd’s spelling] had divided my services between themselves without even consulting me. Like I was some beast of burden. Surprisingly, i found this thought very erotic and my erection gave me away. i reached up and threw my arms around my Wife's neck.”


Au876’s “career” choice was slightly different. As Au explained to the Husbands’ Forum at the time, “All she has asked is for me to consider quitting my job and coming to work for her… She has not ordered me to, she is leaving it up to me.”

Those of us in the Forum, as I recall, had no doubt as to what Au’s ”final decision” would be, and he proved us right:

“I have decided to do just that [come work for her] but haven't told her. She did tell me it would not require any more of my time than I presently spend on my job and thus would not interfere with my household duties… I am developing a plan to wrap up something, maybe a poem I'll write, to say I am quitting my job and coming to work for her. She will be my boss both at home and at work. It is hard to believe how totally dependent I am upon her and how much I love it.”

Like Charles on Spousechat, Au876 filed frequent progress reports on his new wife-directed venture:

”Yes, I am wholehearted into the decision. My wife was pleased but not surprised. My present to her was a copy of my letter of resignation to my now former employer. She asked if I had already turned it in because if I hadn't, she wanted to make it clear it was my decision as she was not mandating this. I had already turned it in and told her I knew it was my decision and I had decided.”

“We went to a New Year's Eve party where my wife knew most of the people. I could tell she was really proud of my decision. She introduced me to a lot of the people and when she did she would almost always say something about my coming to work for her in her new business. “

“I officially start work for my wife this coming Monday. Actually as I understand it, I will be assisting her other two partners in whatever way they need me. My wife still has full time employment elsewhere but the other partners are actually working for her since she owns 51% of the business. I think I will mostly be a ‘gofer’ for them and hopefully will be keeping the books. I can do that from the house. Should be an interesting year. I look forward to it.”

“I suppose maybe it was a further move to subjugation when I went to work for my wife. However, it is working out great and has caused me to hold her in even more awe and increased my respect for her.”

“I have put in almost 2 1/2 weeks of working for my wife and her partners now. I was supposed to be putting in about 20 hours a week but it has been closer to 40+. My wife is keeping her regular job for now. Her partners have kept me extremely busy getting the office in order, filing, cleaning, running errands and etc. My wife has been coming in later and she always has a lot for me to do for her. She did make it clear to everyone this week that when she was there I reported only to her (at least for the time being).”

“I am still doing all I have done in the past at home. The lone exception has been cooking her dinner and having it ready when she gets home. A lot of times she is having to wait for me to get it ready. I wasn't sure what my duties were going to be when I agreed to come to work for her. I was hoping I might be keeping the books and sort of be the office manager... It looks like I will mostly be doing mundane office work. So far the most challenging thing I have done is type a few letters for them.”

“My wife asked me last night how I liked it so far and I told her I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be doing and I felt like maybe I wasn't needed. She said I was supposed to do whatever I was told. She also said I had been a big help so far just in getting the office set up for them. She made me feel better about myself being so busy. I am still keeping her panties clean and loving it.”

“My wife tells almost everyone that I work for her and am her househusband. You know how if you are at some function and meeting someone for the first time, they usually ask ‘and what do you do?’ If the question is asked to me with my wife around, she usually answers for me. She will say something like ‘He does part time work for me in my business and is a full time househusband.’ I have no problem with this. It is what I do and I do it well.”

But now--the rest of the story. As Au eventually confided, going to work for your wife means you can also be let go by your boss-wife:

“My wife called me into her office today and told me she was laying me off. She has bought out her two partners and needs a full time person to assist her. She has offered the job to her former boss and he has accepted. She does not want me to go back to any type of work as she wants me to stay home full time. She said I would still be doing some word processing for her that I could do from the house. I am also to come to the office three times a week to clean.”

Years later, on Spousechat, Charles recounted an almost identical interview with his “stunning” boss-wife Lisa:

“Lisa has told me that I will not be returning to work on any regular basis, not that I did a bad job, just the opposite, but she needs me for other things.”

You may wonder, Have I ever worked for my wife? Sort of. Many years ago, before we were married but going together while working at the same place, she and I applied for the same managerial post. She got it over me (I don’t think the choice was even close). I found myself suddenly reporting to her for a considerable period of time (before being transferred to another department). It was awkward at first, and, yes, a blow to my ego. But I knew darned well that she was vastly better qualified in every way (relating to co-workers, making decisions, weighing alternatives, you name it).

Later on, at the same company, I very briefly became a manager of a minor department and proved how right that earlier decision was. I am not managerial stock, to say the last. Little wonder that, once we were married, the reins of leadership quickly passed into my wife’s capable hands.

There is one related anecdote. I have had some good earning years and some not-so- good years. During one dismal downtime, my wife glanced up from the local paper and informed me she was thinking of turning me into a bus driver. She had just read that our striking bus drivers make $50 grand a year.

I didn't react at the time, but later confided on the Wife Worship Forum that I would try my hand at anything my wife told me to do.

I got a quick reaction from Au876, who was, of course, uniquely qualified to offer an opinion: “That is progress. Comments your wife makes in everyday conversation show her state of mind. Her mention of MAKING you into a bus driver could be her way of letting you know she has the power to do so and you had better shape up if you don't want to do it.”

That’s the end of the line, folks. Please exit to the rear.

Spouseclub Archive Excerpt No. 6

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Spouseclub Archive Excerpt No. 5

Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 5

(Editor’s Note: This is the fifth in a continuing series of samplings from www.spousechat.com, a message board active between 2001 and 2003. What began as a networking site for husbands wed to high-powered executives rapidly morphed into a provocative forum focusing on “matriarchal” (or, as they are more commonly called now, “wife-led marriages.”)

MS. LYNDA
I want to be in charge of a thinking man and a feeling man. I do not want a zombie that I can train. Yes, I like the "slavish" devotion, but, only if it is sustained with real intelligence, drive, and ambition. As I have said before, I think it takes an extremely strong man to take the backseat in the relationship and be a supportive spouse to his wife. A toast to strong men who become supportive spouses. Another toast to the women who take the leadership role.

MS. LYNDA
All I have ever wanted to do is reverse roles. I have wanted to do this since I was in elementary school. In my boyfriend, I have found a good match. He is quieter and more reserved. He is also wanting and willing to take the more subordinate role in the relationship, including taking my name. While I loved most of the graduation gifts we got, someone threatened to give me a whip and chains to subdue my husband. Some people want to know where I will build my dungeon. Both of us know we are going into new territory, but, we want to be a loving couple that does things in a matriarchal way. Yes, I want "slavish" devotion, but, I do not want an unthinking slave. I want him pussywhipped, but I do not want him whipped and bruised. When friends come over, I want them to experience the life of a well pampered woman, not the life of a bitch who abuses her husband. But perhaps I am being a little BDSM when I demand his oral attentions, or when I fondle him. As a joke, someone gave us a dog collar and leash for graduation. While it gave me a sense of power, I could go for the rest of my life without repeating the event. I guess I enjoy hearing from Charles and Lisa because they seem to be blazing the same kind of trails. He is subordinate and submissive without BDSM. I never want to degrade my boyfriend to the point where he resents his position in the family. When we have children, he will have a respected role as he raises them. But I do not want to be a distant mother. I know what I want and I know I will get it. I am discovering how very lucky I am.

NEWELL
Mr. Lynda, I think it's great you will be taking Lynda's last name. I also understand that you do all if not most of the cooking and cleaning. I was curious if you might want to tell me how you decide on the meals, does Lynda require a clean house or a VERY CLEAN HOUSE? As far as collars go, I must say that I certainly did not intend to introduce the concept of BDSM into this site. My usage of the terms Dominance and submission refers quite simply to the expectation as well as the type of exchange that my wife and I have with one another. Now on to collars, I think collars can be fun and are a good way to remind you and me of our position as well as our commitment to our wives. It sounds like you do enjoy wearing it as well as acknowledging to those around you that you do belong to Lynda, that's nice. I think one of the understated benefits of a submissive role is the feeling of belonging and the knowledge that you are being taken care of, or looked after if you will. I know in my relationship the feeling of belonging to her is very deep and it seems the longer we practice this type of lifestyle, the harder it is to stop or do things another way.

MR. LYNDA
I was less bothered by the dog collar and leash than Ms. Lynda was. It was pretty cool. I want to do it again. But I do not want to do it every day. It is just be a symbol of my devotion to Lynda. I would like to wear it at a dinner party we have planned before we leave here. She wants to invite a couple of her teachers again. They might get a kick out of it; "what have they done?" I think one of the problems Lynda and I are having is that we have not had a terrific fight yet. Nothing has come up that would have caused a battle between us. However, I know it will happen. We will discuss. While I realize that almost all final decisions will have to be hers, there may be one someday that will cause me to continue the fight. We will resolve it. And we will love each other. We also respect each other, and we respect the roles we have chosen in this household.

CHARLES
I get all my recipes from Foodtv.com. They've got about 20,000 recipes. Sounds to me like you’re a pretty good cook. The main question is, is Lynda pleased with your cooking? If so, then you are doing your job. If not, then you have to work to improve. That may means taking some cooking classes, which is what I did. I've also taken other classes over the years, such as manicuring/pedicuring, facials/skin care and massage. It's all about pleasing your wife.

MS. LYNDA
I am pleased. Sometimes the meals are a little heavy, and I like things lighter during the summer months. He has been creative. He made a chicken salad using a little bit of orange juice with the mayonnaise. He then added cashew nutes and green grapes. Cooking school is a great idea. So would the other classes. Have you shared with Ms. Lisa about being Ms. and Mr. Lisa Smith? It seems like a long time since you posted. Did Ms. Lisa take you on a vacation?

CHARLES
No, Ms. Lynda, she didn’t, although I wish she would. Actually we did discuss the whole name issue, and Lisa decided, and I agreed, naturally, that as a couple we are going to start using Ms. Lisa and Mr. Charles Smith. We are putting her name first, but she is allowing me to retain my first name. And of course it's her last name which I took years ago. If she wanted me to go by Mr. Lisa Smith, that would have been OK with me, but she didn’t. A little too unconventional, I guess. I haven't posted much this past week, I have been really busy. Your boyfriend does sound like an excellent cook. So, how are the marriage plans going? Have you decided on how to handle the finances yet? I would highly recommend sending him to go to school for manicuring, pedicuring, and skin care. It is so much more convienient and less time consuming for Lisa to have me do these things than for her to have to go to a salon. Plus, it's a fantastic way to show my devotion to her, and my place in the relationship. When I'm at her feet polishing her toenails, she really enjoys the sense of power and control, knowing that at that moment in time, the only thing that matters to me is the perfect application of nail polish on Lisa's toes. I've also been to massage school, and Lisa enjoys being able to come home to a massage a few nights a week.

MS. LYNDA
You are filled with such good ideas and Mr. Lynda has agreed to take this fall semester and entitle it "Serving the Wife Term". He will take some further money management classes, some cooking classes, and some courses in hotel management. We are still working on how we will handle finances. My Mother seems to think we should engage her lawyer / broker and have Mr. Lynda work under her. I am keeping several accounts in my name only. However, he will have a household account that he will present for my inspection on a regular basis. I think he will be responsible for paying all the bills. I trust him to do the right thing. I will have my ways of enforcing his compliance.

BIBI
My husband and I will both work, but he will respect and support my career. I demand it. The man I am dating now accepts it. I respect men who will take second place and make the most of it. It is about time.

MS. LYNDA
Men can prove very useful when they decide to support your career and take care of all the household needs. They are nice to talk to when they keep up with events and have interests other than sports. Men are cute. Even with rough edges, they are adorable. I want to keep them around for a great while longer. I know I cannot live without them.

MS. LYNDA
Yesterday, I forgot to take my brown bag lunch. My boss was having a luncheon meeting for her staff. At 11:00 a.m., Mr. Lynda shows up with my lunch. He was wearing a nice pair of nylon running shorts and a close fitting t shirt because he was going to work out before going to work at the swimming pool. One of the women in the office asked him who made the lunch since it was so nice of him to bring it to me. He said he had put the lunch together and told the woman what he had made. I got teased for having the most whipped boyfriend. I know they were all envious because my lunch was the very best. I felt so powerful yesterday.

MR. LYNDA
The experience the other day was extremely weird. I know what to expect from Lynda. I was shocked by the behavior of the other women in her office. They enjoyed seeing me in a subordinate position. They felt I was being humiliated and whipped by Lynda. I love seeing women rule the roost. However, I was not humiliated. Is it humiliating to support your wife's career? I hope not. I expect to be doing it for fifty plus years.

CHARLES
What a nice feeling it must have been for you, Ms Lynda, to have him do this for you in front of all of your co-workers. It sounds as if he has no problem whatsoever showing and telling people that you are the boss. Being subordinate to your wife at home is one thing, but in public, it takes real courage. Mr. Lynda is to be commended, and you are to be commended for having the ability and attitude that allows him to be able to do things like this. I've had similar experiences, where Lisa has left something home and I've had to bring it to her at her office. Once, she broke a heel on one of her shoes, so she calls me and tells me to bring her a different pair of shoes. She described to me the ones she wanted, I located them and drove them to her office. This happened a few years ago, and at the time I didn’t know too many people in her office, just a couple of them. So I get to her office with the shoes, and she's in the middle of a meeting with three of her employees, whom I had not previously met. It was an informal meeting, and so her secretary let me go into her office, after first announcing that her husband was here with her shoes. So I walk in, Lisa's shoes in hand. She introduces me, and, like your co-workers did, her employees commented on how nice it was of me to do this, and they joked with Lisa about how well she had trained me. I set Lisa's shoes at her feet, and (I kind of knew this was going to happen) she asked me if I would put them on her. Lisa asked in a really nice way, and the whole atmosphere in the room was very light. She didn’t want to embarrass me too much, just enough to show me and her three employees that she was the boss at home as well. So, of course, like a good husband, I put Lisa's shoes on for her, we joked around some more, she told me to take her broken shoe to be repaired, and I left.

MS. LYNDA
Some of my co-workers have found out about the dinner party I am throwing. You should see the interest being shown. So many of these women want an invitation. I have had to promise them another party before we leave. Some of the women even said they would chip in and help pay for the dinner if they could be present and served by Mr. Lynda. I am so lucky. I feel SO POWERFUL. Also, Mr. Lynda and I had supper at a restaurant because he was working the evening shift at the swimming pool. We got lots of stares. I was dressed for business and he was dressed for leisure. People did notice. Both of us loved it... His boss this summer at the swimming pool is a woman, the head of the park is a woman, the swim team coach he assists is a younger woman. He is going to be so conditioned that he will be shocked when he realizes that men do things also.

SUBMALE
I'm a 34 year old man who's about to get married to the Woman of my dreams. We share the view that She's more fit to have the final word on important decisions in our life. She will be the natural head of the family, and I will do everything I can to support Her in Her career. Thanks to Rob's post earlier about men taking their wives' last names, I've just decided that that's what I want to do: Take Her last name when we marry.

MS. LYNDA
I am glad you are taking your wife's last name in marriage. My boyfriend is doing the same later this summer when we marry. Will you also be Mr. (Her First Name) (Her Family Name) for formal purposes? Sometimes I fear I am too much like a husband of the forties and fifties because I do not want my husband to work outside the home. He needs to support my career so that I can do more and more. Like more women who are putting their career first, I thank you men who are willing to take the subordinate, submissive role in the family. Your courage will help shape a new society where we all work to our maximum, if at home or on the outside world. I know I make a lot of sense.

MR. ANGELA
Although I am currently employed in a reasonably senior job my girlfriend (who also reads this board) is keen for me to give it up, move in with her. Give up work and dedicate myself full time to her service. Whilst I am happy to do this holding as I do a totally subordinate role in our relationship, I am concerned as my girlfriend has a 16 year old daughter from a previous relationship and I worry as to what effect this might have on her daughter. Although her daughter is aware that I am submissive to her mother, I am not sure she appreciates the extent of my submission. This does concern me, though Ms Angela insists that it’s no problem and her daughter understands the nature of our relationship and as a teenager is happy with the idea of being able to hand over her chores to me!

YES MY GODDESS
It sounds like you - oops, I mean Ms Angela - has it well in control. Listen to Ms Angela; obey Ms Angela; learn to please Ms Angela... therein lies wisdom. I am learning to say "Yes, My Goddess"

LEO
What are the complications? Do as you are told. Women have a high sense of morals. Nothing unseemly will happen and you will forward the cause of Matriarchal Households and give a very positive image to a young teenage woman who may find a boy like "dear ole step-dad."

MR. ANGELA
Well yes but I suspect that knowing myself and Ms Angela and her daughter that I will end up as servile to both of them, I guess it’s that I am concerned about. Perhaps I should just accept it as my role and be grateful.

LEO
I think you should simply accept your role. Yes, you may be servile to both, but you will be guided in it by Ms. Angela. You may be helping form a mindset in the young teenager. It seems proper to me that you would take a servile role to both of them. Good luck. Enjoy your new role! Like so many modern men, you are breaking new ground in a very positive way.

MR. ANGELA
Thanks for your advice. I have spoken to Ms Angela about this and my feelings. She too feels that it is quite natural that I be servile to them both. She has said that it would make her happy to see me call her daughter miss and her Maam. She also likes the idea of her daughter assuming some of Ms Angela’s supervisory duties when she is not there. Whilst I am comfortable to an extent, I am still not sure I am ready to be scolded and chastised by someone young enough to be my daughter.

LEO
You say you feel it is not comfortable to surrender to your girlfriend's daughter. I say you will surrender not to her daughter foremost, but to your Lady's wish (which is to obey her daughter too). From this point on, you cannot make any excuses.

MR. ANGELA
Yes, I am sure you are right and that’s what I intend to do. Part of me I think is still adjusting to the new dynamics. It will be an adjustment for me to submit to this young lady but one I am happy, willing and eager to make. In some ways when I reflect on it I find the idea of submitting to my Mistress’s daughter really quite pleasing, reinforcing as it does my true place in the domestic pecking order.

MR. MARTHA
Here is a newspaper article about a Mr. Joseph Harkless who, upon marriage, became Mr. Cristina Ellison. I think this is an inspiring story about a couple who truly represent the future when men will proudly take their wives' names in marriage:
Cincinnati Enquirer, Sunday, January 07, 2001
COUPLE KEEPS WIFE'S NAME; IT TAKES 6 MONTHS
ELYRIA, Ohio (AP) — More than six months after their wedding, Joseph Harkless and Christina Ellison finally have the same last name — but it's not his.
Joseph Ellison, 20, told the Chronicle Telegram that he took his wife's last name because he loves her. “It's so sad to me because my dad was the last boy in his family and there are no more Ellisons. So we're like extending the name,” Ms. Ellison, 21, said.
The couple, who are formally called Ms. and Mr. Christina Ellison, married June 16, but Mr. Ellison's name change was delayed by the license and Social Security bureaus, Ms. Ellison said.
A criminal investigation was conducted to make sure Mr. Ellison was not changing his name to skirt the law.
“The Social Security bureau said they would have to do a credit investigation and a criminal investigation to see if he had killed people in other states and was trying to run away,” Ms. Ellison said.
“Finally they said they were sick of dealing with it and were finally going to do it.”
They hope to become an example to others wanting to keep the wife's name.
“Everyone keeps saying, "Man, if I had known that, I would have had my husband change his name,'” Ms. Ellison said. “My sister's going to do it next. They got married in November, and they're going to change his name soon too.”

I ran into this story about a year ago and I contacted the couple. They had inspired me. When we were married over fifteen years ago, I took my wife's last name in marriage, but kept my name for professional reasons. In other words, only the closest family members and children knew of our family by my wife's name. At home, I would be Mr. Her, but in public I stayed Mr. Me.

When you speak with this couple, you get the idea that they are just as normal as any young couple. She is the head of the household because she is smart and dynamic. She has been in management. In fact, Joe met her when they worked together and she was his boss. He is proud to acknowledge her as the head of their household. So loving and honest is he that I took the step and changed my driver's license and other ID to my wife's name. I also told family church members, and others that our family would be known as Dr. and Mr. (Her First Name) (Her Last Name) in formal settings. Except for the "that's cool" and "you are too pussywhipped", no one seems to care. Her mother thinks it is the most wonderful thing since sliced bread. She loves to introduce me to her friends. I even think she has forgotten my first name.

MS. LYNDA
It is important that a man be able to shift his goals and support a woman's career. The matriarchal movement will need well trained men to help educate both sons and daughters in the "new order."

LEGS
Whether we like it or not, we're going to have to accept the reality of it (women in dominant roles). From what I've observed it's inevitable. Might as well like it and do what we can to make the inevitable future more pleasant.

CHARLES
Yesterday, I told Lisa that I would be willing to fill in for her assistant for the second two weeks in July. Lisa had already assumed that I would, as I said, she was very insistent upon it, almost demanding that I do it. Also, I will still be expected to do all of the housework, and give her the personal services she has become accustomed to. A monumental task, I think, but as Ms. Lynda stated, it's what she wants, so I will do it. Although I worked for women for years, I am still intimidated at the prospect of working for Lisa, not to mention the other women in her office. I'm also not ashamed to say that I am definitely Lisa's intellectual inferior, she is brilliant, I never finished college. It will be quite a challenge and I hope I do not disappoint her.

CHARLES
When I met Lisa, I really didn’t have much of a choice as to my role, if I wanted to be with her, I was just going to have to accept the subordinate role. There are a lot of men out there these days who feel as I do, that the woman can and should be the leader.

MS. LYNDA
I am sure you will not disappoint Ms. Lisa because you have the right attitude going into the temp position. You can do it all. Work on pleasing Ms. Lisa; you cannot fail. You may be exhausted at the end of your temp experience, but, you will also be even more thankful that you work at home for Ms. Lisa, helping her career be even more successful all the time.

CHARLES
Thank you once again, Ms. Lynda. You’re right, I must stay focused on pleasing Lisa and remember that what is good for her career benefits the both of us. I like to think that I do play a part in her success, like I said before, even when ironing her skirts in the morning, I do it with the attitude that it will enhance her day. We men need the direction of a strong, confident, assertive woman.

ANNA
If I were married to you, I would keep you barefoot, and servile. I would expect a clean house and delicious meals every day. If you work outside the home, will you gain a taste for your freedom and want more. I hope Lisa is not making a mistake. You do not need freedom. You need to serve her.

JENNIFER
If Charles was my secretary, he'd have to wear tailored suits and have impeccable grooming. He'd have my coffee and Wall Street Journal on my desk before I arrived for work. He would take dictation. He would have to make all of my personal appointments such as hair, nails and tanning for me. He would call me Ms. S, and answer "yes ma'am" when given an instruction. He would accompany me to business meetings to carry my briefcase for me. He would run all types of errands for me, both business and personal. He would pick up and drop off my dry cleaning, get my car washed, and shop for me when I needed him too... Interested in the job????

CHARLES
Ms. Jennifer S., Actually, at my last job, I did nearly all of these things for my boss. Her name was Susan and she was truly an incredible woman. Although she was a very demanding woman, she actually made it a pleasure to do all of these things for her.

(End of 5th Spousechat Archive Excerpt; more to come…)