Married to the Boss

Awhile back I posted a little something here called “Direct Report to the Boss Lady” (October, 21, 2008). I quoted couples who avoid arguments over money by the simple expedient of having the wife assume complete financial control. You know, the wife is installed as “boss” at home, with the husband kind of like her “direct report.” Common result: instant domestic harmony plus a steady uptick in fiscal responsibility and financial health.

But there is a subset of wife-led marriages where the wife is not only the boss at home, but on the job. You might think this is stretching the wife-led thing to the breaking point, but you’d be wrong, judging from the many message board postings I’ve seen and saved. I’ll start with several from the Spousechat Excerpts posted here recently:

HUSBAND:
I know a woman lawyer whose husband works for his wife as an investigator. However, he is home in time to prepare and serve meals. Three women own their own real estate business, and their husbands work as agents for their wives. Another woman owns the family car leasing business. Her husband is her mechanic. I could go on and on with different stories.

ANOTHER HUSBAND:
My wife is a lawyer. She hires me regularly to do depositions. She is the boss at work and at home. It is wonderful! Men in that position should enjoy!

WIFE:
My husband is a researcher in a business founded by my father. I am now the CEO. I am his boss at work and at home. We have few problems. If I fire him, he can stay at home and do his other work. It is great!

Regular readers will also recall the many postings from Spousechat mainstay, Charles, aka “Mr. Lisa,” who was introduced to his future wife (and boss) by his then-boss, a powerful female real estate agent:

“I [was] an assistant to one of the busiest agents in the entire area, I mean she had years where she sold $25 million. This is the woman who introduced me to Lisa. This woman exuded sexual power, in the way she dressed and in her actions, but never directed it towards me. I wish she had. She treated me professionally. It was usually the younger agents in the office who would make the sexual innuendoes and jokes. I took it all in stride. Anyway, any men who want to see what it's like to work in a female dominated business should try working for a real estate agency. I'll tell you, it really prepared me for my marriage.”

After marrying Charles, Lisa had him resign from his office job to become her full-time househusband. Later on, as he tells it, she gave him a chance, briefly, to go back to work—for her:

“Yesterday, I told Lisa that I would be willing to fill in for her assistant for the second two weeks in July. Lisa had already assumed that I would, as I said, she was very insistent upon it, almost demanding that I do it. Also, I will still be expected to do all of the housework, and give her the personal services she has become accustomed to… Although I worked for women for years, I am still intimidated at the prospect of working for Lisa, not to mention the other women in her office.”

I recall logging on to the Spousechat message board each day during this time to see how Charles’ temp stint was working out. He kept us posted:


“In the office, Lisa can be playful, and it is her office, she even owns the building. She has joked around a little with me, saying things like ‘If you want to get ahead in my company, you'll have to perform under the boss’s desk.’ So, who knows what may happen? I can only hope.”

“The first day, yesterday, was tough. Lisa is an unbelievably busy woman and keeping up with her instructions is a difficult task, I made a lot of mistakes. Then, of course, when I got home, there were all of my other tasks at home to do. I worked till midnight.”

“I think I did OK for my first week, although I was chastised for forgetting a few personal tasks she told me to do. Like yesterday, I was supposed to pick up her dress at the cleaners, but I forgot… I want to re-dedicate myself to making Lisa's home life even more enjoyable.”

Another househusband regularly quoted on this blog, Au876, confided a similar experience to fellow wife-worshippers on Lady Misato’s original Husbands’ Forum:

“My wife is thinking about going into a business with two other ladies starting next year. She is planning to be the senior partner putting up 51% of the funds (she has done very well on her investments). She wants to keep her present job as she makes good money and has good benefits. She is talking about making me quit my job and work for her. Actually she says I would be more or less working for the other two ladies since she wouldn't have much time to devote to the business in person.
“She hasn't made up her mind yet on any of it for sure. She did say she would let me decide if I would give up my job and work for her, and my decision would be a major factor as to whether or not she invests in the business. I don't really want too give up my job. However, what I make only amounts to about 25% of our total income and she thinks she can make a lot more from the business. I have to let her know before year end.”

Fdhousehusband, whose discontinued blog is keenly missed by many of us, faced a similar crossroads. As I recall it, his wife had recommended “fd” to a female friend of hers to work on a trial basis at a nonprofit. Fd turned in such a conscientious performance that the woman offered him a full time position:

Fd agonized over this decision, because, like Charles, he knew he would not be excused from any of his househusbandly duties just because he was working full-time. What should he do? Fd asked his wife for her guidance:

“She addressed me like a schoolteacher. ‘When making a difficult choice, it is always best to analyze the pros and cons. On the pro side, if you take the job, I'll have more money to spend and a girl can never have enough shoes. For you, you get out of the house and the opportunity to do something useful, besides cleaning my toilets, that is…
"’On the con side, you will be a lot busier, so there will be less time on the computer and less down time for you. Also, with more to do, you probably will let more things fall through the cracks and that means I will have to punish you more. Remember, this new job is not an excuse for neglecting your chores.’"

As was usually the case, fd’s wife took the initiative and, via phone calls and faxes with her woman friend at the nonprofit, negotiated conditions for her husband’s employment that would allow him to keep up all his domestic duties through a combination of regular office hours, flex time and telecommuting from home.

Fd read the resulting document and saw that it contained everything he could have wanted in a job outside the home. “i then realized that these two powerful Womyn [fd’s spelling] had divided my services between themselves without even consulting me. Like I was some beast of burden. Surprisingly, i found this thought very erotic and my erection gave me away. i reached up and threw my arms around my Wife's neck.”


Au876’s “career” choice was slightly different. As Au explained to the Husbands’ Forum at the time, “All she has asked is for me to consider quitting my job and coming to work for her… She has not ordered me to, she is leaving it up to me.”

Those of us in the Forum, as I recall, had no doubt as to what Au’s ”final decision” would be, and he proved us right:

“I have decided to do just that [come work for her] but haven't told her. She did tell me it would not require any more of my time than I presently spend on my job and thus would not interfere with my household duties… I am developing a plan to wrap up something, maybe a poem I'll write, to say I am quitting my job and coming to work for her. She will be my boss both at home and at work. It is hard to believe how totally dependent I am upon her and how much I love it.”

Like Charles on Spousechat, Au876 filed frequent progress reports on his new wife-directed venture:

”Yes, I am wholehearted into the decision. My wife was pleased but not surprised. My present to her was a copy of my letter of resignation to my now former employer. She asked if I had already turned it in because if I hadn't, she wanted to make it clear it was my decision as she was not mandating this. I had already turned it in and told her I knew it was my decision and I had decided.”

“We went to a New Year's Eve party where my wife knew most of the people. I could tell she was really proud of my decision. She introduced me to a lot of the people and when she did she would almost always say something about my coming to work for her in her new business. “

“I officially start work for my wife this coming Monday. Actually as I understand it, I will be assisting her other two partners in whatever way they need me. My wife still has full time employment elsewhere but the other partners are actually working for her since she owns 51% of the business. I think I will mostly be a ‘gofer’ for them and hopefully will be keeping the books. I can do that from the house. Should be an interesting year. I look forward to it.”

“I suppose maybe it was a further move to subjugation when I went to work for my wife. However, it is working out great and has caused me to hold her in even more awe and increased my respect for her.”

“I have put in almost 2 1/2 weeks of working for my wife and her partners now. I was supposed to be putting in about 20 hours a week but it has been closer to 40+. My wife is keeping her regular job for now. Her partners have kept me extremely busy getting the office in order, filing, cleaning, running errands and etc. My wife has been coming in later and she always has a lot for me to do for her. She did make it clear to everyone this week that when she was there I reported only to her (at least for the time being).”

“I am still doing all I have done in the past at home. The lone exception has been cooking her dinner and having it ready when she gets home. A lot of times she is having to wait for me to get it ready. I wasn't sure what my duties were going to be when I agreed to come to work for her. I was hoping I might be keeping the books and sort of be the office manager... It looks like I will mostly be doing mundane office work. So far the most challenging thing I have done is type a few letters for them.”

“My wife asked me last night how I liked it so far and I told her I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be doing and I felt like maybe I wasn't needed. She said I was supposed to do whatever I was told. She also said I had been a big help so far just in getting the office set up for them. She made me feel better about myself being so busy. I am still keeping her panties clean and loving it.”

“My wife tells almost everyone that I work for her and am her househusband. You know how if you are at some function and meeting someone for the first time, they usually ask ‘and what do you do?’ If the question is asked to me with my wife around, she usually answers for me. She will say something like ‘He does part time work for me in my business and is a full time househusband.’ I have no problem with this. It is what I do and I do it well.”

But now--the rest of the story. As Au eventually confided, going to work for your wife means you can also be let go by your boss-wife:

“My wife called me into her office today and told me she was laying me off. She has bought out her two partners and needs a full time person to assist her. She has offered the job to her former boss and he has accepted. She does not want me to go back to any type of work as she wants me to stay home full time. She said I would still be doing some word processing for her that I could do from the house. I am also to come to the office three times a week to clean.”

Years later, on Spousechat, Charles recounted an almost identical interview with his “stunning” boss-wife Lisa:

“Lisa has told me that I will not be returning to work on any regular basis, not that I did a bad job, just the opposite, but she needs me for other things.”

You may wonder, Have I ever worked for my wife? Sort of. Many years ago, before we were married but going together while working at the same place, she and I applied for the same managerial post. She got it over me (I don’t think the choice was even close). I found myself suddenly reporting to her for a considerable period of time (before being transferred to another department). It was awkward at first, and, yes, a blow to my ego. But I knew darned well that she was vastly better qualified in every way (relating to co-workers, making decisions, weighing alternatives, you name it).

Later on, at the same company, I very briefly became a manager of a minor department and proved how right that earlier decision was. I am not managerial stock, to say the last. Little wonder that, once we were married, the reins of leadership quickly passed into my wife’s capable hands.

There is one related anecdote. I have had some good earning years and some not-so- good years. During one dismal downtime, my wife glanced up from the local paper and informed me she was thinking of turning me into a bus driver. She had just read that our striking bus drivers make $50 grand a year.

I didn't react at the time, but later confided on the Wife Worship Forum that I would try my hand at anything my wife told me to do.

I got a quick reaction from Au876, who was, of course, uniquely qualified to offer an opinion: “That is progress. Comments your wife makes in everyday conversation show her state of mind. Her mention of MAKING you into a bus driver could be her way of letting you know she has the power to do so and you had better shape up if you don't want to do it.”

That’s the end of the line, folks. Please exit to the rear.

Spouseclub Archive Excerpt No. 6

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Spouseclub Archive Excerpt No. 5

Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 5

(Editor’s Note: This is the fifth in a continuing series of samplings from www.spousechat.com, a message board active between 2001 and 2003. What began as a networking site for husbands wed to high-powered executives rapidly morphed into a provocative forum focusing on “matriarchal” (or, as they are more commonly called now, “wife-led marriages.”)

MS. LYNDA
I want to be in charge of a thinking man and a feeling man. I do not want a zombie that I can train. Yes, I like the "slavish" devotion, but, only if it is sustained with real intelligence, drive, and ambition. As I have said before, I think it takes an extremely strong man to take the backseat in the relationship and be a supportive spouse to his wife. A toast to strong men who become supportive spouses. Another toast to the women who take the leadership role.

MS. LYNDA
All I have ever wanted to do is reverse roles. I have wanted to do this since I was in elementary school. In my boyfriend, I have found a good match. He is quieter and more reserved. He is also wanting and willing to take the more subordinate role in the relationship, including taking my name. While I loved most of the graduation gifts we got, someone threatened to give me a whip and chains to subdue my husband. Some people want to know where I will build my dungeon. Both of us know we are going into new territory, but, we want to be a loving couple that does things in a matriarchal way. Yes, I want "slavish" devotion, but, I do not want an unthinking slave. I want him pussywhipped, but I do not want him whipped and bruised. When friends come over, I want them to experience the life of a well pampered woman, not the life of a bitch who abuses her husband. But perhaps I am being a little BDSM when I demand his oral attentions, or when I fondle him. As a joke, someone gave us a dog collar and leash for graduation. While it gave me a sense of power, I could go for the rest of my life without repeating the event. I guess I enjoy hearing from Charles and Lisa because they seem to be blazing the same kind of trails. He is subordinate and submissive without BDSM. I never want to degrade my boyfriend to the point where he resents his position in the family. When we have children, he will have a respected role as he raises them. But I do not want to be a distant mother. I know what I want and I know I will get it. I am discovering how very lucky I am.

NEWELL
Mr. Lynda, I think it's great you will be taking Lynda's last name. I also understand that you do all if not most of the cooking and cleaning. I was curious if you might want to tell me how you decide on the meals, does Lynda require a clean house or a VERY CLEAN HOUSE? As far as collars go, I must say that I certainly did not intend to introduce the concept of BDSM into this site. My usage of the terms Dominance and submission refers quite simply to the expectation as well as the type of exchange that my wife and I have with one another. Now on to collars, I think collars can be fun and are a good way to remind you and me of our position as well as our commitment to our wives. It sounds like you do enjoy wearing it as well as acknowledging to those around you that you do belong to Lynda, that's nice. I think one of the understated benefits of a submissive role is the feeling of belonging and the knowledge that you are being taken care of, or looked after if you will. I know in my relationship the feeling of belonging to her is very deep and it seems the longer we practice this type of lifestyle, the harder it is to stop or do things another way.

MR. LYNDA
I was less bothered by the dog collar and leash than Ms. Lynda was. It was pretty cool. I want to do it again. But I do not want to do it every day. It is just be a symbol of my devotion to Lynda. I would like to wear it at a dinner party we have planned before we leave here. She wants to invite a couple of her teachers again. They might get a kick out of it; "what have they done?" I think one of the problems Lynda and I are having is that we have not had a terrific fight yet. Nothing has come up that would have caused a battle between us. However, I know it will happen. We will discuss. While I realize that almost all final decisions will have to be hers, there may be one someday that will cause me to continue the fight. We will resolve it. And we will love each other. We also respect each other, and we respect the roles we have chosen in this household.

CHARLES
I get all my recipes from Foodtv.com. They've got about 20,000 recipes. Sounds to me like you’re a pretty good cook. The main question is, is Lynda pleased with your cooking? If so, then you are doing your job. If not, then you have to work to improve. That may means taking some cooking classes, which is what I did. I've also taken other classes over the years, such as manicuring/pedicuring, facials/skin care and massage. It's all about pleasing your wife.

MS. LYNDA
I am pleased. Sometimes the meals are a little heavy, and I like things lighter during the summer months. He has been creative. He made a chicken salad using a little bit of orange juice with the mayonnaise. He then added cashew nutes and green grapes. Cooking school is a great idea. So would the other classes. Have you shared with Ms. Lisa about being Ms. and Mr. Lisa Smith? It seems like a long time since you posted. Did Ms. Lisa take you on a vacation?

CHARLES
No, Ms. Lynda, she didn’t, although I wish she would. Actually we did discuss the whole name issue, and Lisa decided, and I agreed, naturally, that as a couple we are going to start using Ms. Lisa and Mr. Charles Smith. We are putting her name first, but she is allowing me to retain my first name. And of course it's her last name which I took years ago. If she wanted me to go by Mr. Lisa Smith, that would have been OK with me, but she didn’t. A little too unconventional, I guess. I haven't posted much this past week, I have been really busy. Your boyfriend does sound like an excellent cook. So, how are the marriage plans going? Have you decided on how to handle the finances yet? I would highly recommend sending him to go to school for manicuring, pedicuring, and skin care. It is so much more convienient and less time consuming for Lisa to have me do these things than for her to have to go to a salon. Plus, it's a fantastic way to show my devotion to her, and my place in the relationship. When I'm at her feet polishing her toenails, she really enjoys the sense of power and control, knowing that at that moment in time, the only thing that matters to me is the perfect application of nail polish on Lisa's toes. I've also been to massage school, and Lisa enjoys being able to come home to a massage a few nights a week.

MS. LYNDA
You are filled with such good ideas and Mr. Lynda has agreed to take this fall semester and entitle it "Serving the Wife Term". He will take some further money management classes, some cooking classes, and some courses in hotel management. We are still working on how we will handle finances. My Mother seems to think we should engage her lawyer / broker and have Mr. Lynda work under her. I am keeping several accounts in my name only. However, he will have a household account that he will present for my inspection on a regular basis. I think he will be responsible for paying all the bills. I trust him to do the right thing. I will have my ways of enforcing his compliance.

BIBI
My husband and I will both work, but he will respect and support my career. I demand it. The man I am dating now accepts it. I respect men who will take second place and make the most of it. It is about time.

MS. LYNDA
Men can prove very useful when they decide to support your career and take care of all the household needs. They are nice to talk to when they keep up with events and have interests other than sports. Men are cute. Even with rough edges, they are adorable. I want to keep them around for a great while longer. I know I cannot live without them.

MS. LYNDA
Yesterday, I forgot to take my brown bag lunch. My boss was having a luncheon meeting for her staff. At 11:00 a.m., Mr. Lynda shows up with my lunch. He was wearing a nice pair of nylon running shorts and a close fitting t shirt because he was going to work out before going to work at the swimming pool. One of the women in the office asked him who made the lunch since it was so nice of him to bring it to me. He said he had put the lunch together and told the woman what he had made. I got teased for having the most whipped boyfriend. I know they were all envious because my lunch was the very best. I felt so powerful yesterday.

MR. LYNDA
The experience the other day was extremely weird. I know what to expect from Lynda. I was shocked by the behavior of the other women in her office. They enjoyed seeing me in a subordinate position. They felt I was being humiliated and whipped by Lynda. I love seeing women rule the roost. However, I was not humiliated. Is it humiliating to support your wife's career? I hope not. I expect to be doing it for fifty plus years.

CHARLES
What a nice feeling it must have been for you, Ms Lynda, to have him do this for you in front of all of your co-workers. It sounds as if he has no problem whatsoever showing and telling people that you are the boss. Being subordinate to your wife at home is one thing, but in public, it takes real courage. Mr. Lynda is to be commended, and you are to be commended for having the ability and attitude that allows him to be able to do things like this. I've had similar experiences, where Lisa has left something home and I've had to bring it to her at her office. Once, she broke a heel on one of her shoes, so she calls me and tells me to bring her a different pair of shoes. She described to me the ones she wanted, I located them and drove them to her office. This happened a few years ago, and at the time I didn’t know too many people in her office, just a couple of them. So I get to her office with the shoes, and she's in the middle of a meeting with three of her employees, whom I had not previously met. It was an informal meeting, and so her secretary let me go into her office, after first announcing that her husband was here with her shoes. So I walk in, Lisa's shoes in hand. She introduces me, and, like your co-workers did, her employees commented on how nice it was of me to do this, and they joked with Lisa about how well she had trained me. I set Lisa's shoes at her feet, and (I kind of knew this was going to happen) she asked me if I would put them on her. Lisa asked in a really nice way, and the whole atmosphere in the room was very light. She didn’t want to embarrass me too much, just enough to show me and her three employees that she was the boss at home as well. So, of course, like a good husband, I put Lisa's shoes on for her, we joked around some more, she told me to take her broken shoe to be repaired, and I left.

MS. LYNDA
Some of my co-workers have found out about the dinner party I am throwing. You should see the interest being shown. So many of these women want an invitation. I have had to promise them another party before we leave. Some of the women even said they would chip in and help pay for the dinner if they could be present and served by Mr. Lynda. I am so lucky. I feel SO POWERFUL. Also, Mr. Lynda and I had supper at a restaurant because he was working the evening shift at the swimming pool. We got lots of stares. I was dressed for business and he was dressed for leisure. People did notice. Both of us loved it... His boss this summer at the swimming pool is a woman, the head of the park is a woman, the swim team coach he assists is a younger woman. He is going to be so conditioned that he will be shocked when he realizes that men do things also.

SUBMALE
I'm a 34 year old man who's about to get married to the Woman of my dreams. We share the view that She's more fit to have the final word on important decisions in our life. She will be the natural head of the family, and I will do everything I can to support Her in Her career. Thanks to Rob's post earlier about men taking their wives' last names, I've just decided that that's what I want to do: Take Her last name when we marry.

MS. LYNDA
I am glad you are taking your wife's last name in marriage. My boyfriend is doing the same later this summer when we marry. Will you also be Mr. (Her First Name) (Her Family Name) for formal purposes? Sometimes I fear I am too much like a husband of the forties and fifties because I do not want my husband to work outside the home. He needs to support my career so that I can do more and more. Like more women who are putting their career first, I thank you men who are willing to take the subordinate, submissive role in the family. Your courage will help shape a new society where we all work to our maximum, if at home or on the outside world. I know I make a lot of sense.

MR. ANGELA
Although I am currently employed in a reasonably senior job my girlfriend (who also reads this board) is keen for me to give it up, move in with her. Give up work and dedicate myself full time to her service. Whilst I am happy to do this holding as I do a totally subordinate role in our relationship, I am concerned as my girlfriend has a 16 year old daughter from a previous relationship and I worry as to what effect this might have on her daughter. Although her daughter is aware that I am submissive to her mother, I am not sure she appreciates the extent of my submission. This does concern me, though Ms Angela insists that it’s no problem and her daughter understands the nature of our relationship and as a teenager is happy with the idea of being able to hand over her chores to me!

YES MY GODDESS
It sounds like you - oops, I mean Ms Angela - has it well in control. Listen to Ms Angela; obey Ms Angela; learn to please Ms Angela... therein lies wisdom. I am learning to say "Yes, My Goddess"

LEO
What are the complications? Do as you are told. Women have a high sense of morals. Nothing unseemly will happen and you will forward the cause of Matriarchal Households and give a very positive image to a young teenage woman who may find a boy like "dear ole step-dad."

MR. ANGELA
Well yes but I suspect that knowing myself and Ms Angela and her daughter that I will end up as servile to both of them, I guess it’s that I am concerned about. Perhaps I should just accept it as my role and be grateful.

LEO
I think you should simply accept your role. Yes, you may be servile to both, but you will be guided in it by Ms. Angela. You may be helping form a mindset in the young teenager. It seems proper to me that you would take a servile role to both of them. Good luck. Enjoy your new role! Like so many modern men, you are breaking new ground in a very positive way.

MR. ANGELA
Thanks for your advice. I have spoken to Ms Angela about this and my feelings. She too feels that it is quite natural that I be servile to them both. She has said that it would make her happy to see me call her daughter miss and her Maam. She also likes the idea of her daughter assuming some of Ms Angela’s supervisory duties when she is not there. Whilst I am comfortable to an extent, I am still not sure I am ready to be scolded and chastised by someone young enough to be my daughter.

LEO
You say you feel it is not comfortable to surrender to your girlfriend's daughter. I say you will surrender not to her daughter foremost, but to your Lady's wish (which is to obey her daughter too). From this point on, you cannot make any excuses.

MR. ANGELA
Yes, I am sure you are right and that’s what I intend to do. Part of me I think is still adjusting to the new dynamics. It will be an adjustment for me to submit to this young lady but one I am happy, willing and eager to make. In some ways when I reflect on it I find the idea of submitting to my Mistress’s daughter really quite pleasing, reinforcing as it does my true place in the domestic pecking order.

MR. MARTHA
Here is a newspaper article about a Mr. Joseph Harkless who, upon marriage, became Mr. Cristina Ellison. I think this is an inspiring story about a couple who truly represent the future when men will proudly take their wives' names in marriage:
Cincinnati Enquirer, Sunday, January 07, 2001
COUPLE KEEPS WIFE'S NAME; IT TAKES 6 MONTHS
ELYRIA, Ohio (AP) — More than six months after their wedding, Joseph Harkless and Christina Ellison finally have the same last name — but it's not his.
Joseph Ellison, 20, told the Chronicle Telegram that he took his wife's last name because he loves her. “It's so sad to me because my dad was the last boy in his family and there are no more Ellisons. So we're like extending the name,” Ms. Ellison, 21, said.
The couple, who are formally called Ms. and Mr. Christina Ellison, married June 16, but Mr. Ellison's name change was delayed by the license and Social Security bureaus, Ms. Ellison said.
A criminal investigation was conducted to make sure Mr. Ellison was not changing his name to skirt the law.
“The Social Security bureau said they would have to do a credit investigation and a criminal investigation to see if he had killed people in other states and was trying to run away,” Ms. Ellison said.
“Finally they said they were sick of dealing with it and were finally going to do it.”
They hope to become an example to others wanting to keep the wife's name.
“Everyone keeps saying, "Man, if I had known that, I would have had my husband change his name,'” Ms. Ellison said. “My sister's going to do it next. They got married in November, and they're going to change his name soon too.”

I ran into this story about a year ago and I contacted the couple. They had inspired me. When we were married over fifteen years ago, I took my wife's last name in marriage, but kept my name for professional reasons. In other words, only the closest family members and children knew of our family by my wife's name. At home, I would be Mr. Her, but in public I stayed Mr. Me.

When you speak with this couple, you get the idea that they are just as normal as any young couple. She is the head of the household because she is smart and dynamic. She has been in management. In fact, Joe met her when they worked together and she was his boss. He is proud to acknowledge her as the head of their household. So loving and honest is he that I took the step and changed my driver's license and other ID to my wife's name. I also told family church members, and others that our family would be known as Dr. and Mr. (Her First Name) (Her Last Name) in formal settings. Except for the "that's cool" and "you are too pussywhipped", no one seems to care. Her mother thinks it is the most wonderful thing since sliced bread. She loves to introduce me to her friends. I even think she has forgotten my first name.

MS. LYNDA
It is important that a man be able to shift his goals and support a woman's career. The matriarchal movement will need well trained men to help educate both sons and daughters in the "new order."

LEGS
Whether we like it or not, we're going to have to accept the reality of it (women in dominant roles). From what I've observed it's inevitable. Might as well like it and do what we can to make the inevitable future more pleasant.

CHARLES
Yesterday, I told Lisa that I would be willing to fill in for her assistant for the second two weeks in July. Lisa had already assumed that I would, as I said, she was very insistent upon it, almost demanding that I do it. Also, I will still be expected to do all of the housework, and give her the personal services she has become accustomed to. A monumental task, I think, but as Ms. Lynda stated, it's what she wants, so I will do it. Although I worked for women for years, I am still intimidated at the prospect of working for Lisa, not to mention the other women in her office. I'm also not ashamed to say that I am definitely Lisa's intellectual inferior, she is brilliant, I never finished college. It will be quite a challenge and I hope I do not disappoint her.

CHARLES
When I met Lisa, I really didn’t have much of a choice as to my role, if I wanted to be with her, I was just going to have to accept the subordinate role. There are a lot of men out there these days who feel as I do, that the woman can and should be the leader.

MS. LYNDA
I am sure you will not disappoint Ms. Lisa because you have the right attitude going into the temp position. You can do it all. Work on pleasing Ms. Lisa; you cannot fail. You may be exhausted at the end of your temp experience, but, you will also be even more thankful that you work at home for Ms. Lisa, helping her career be even more successful all the time.

CHARLES
Thank you once again, Ms. Lynda. You’re right, I must stay focused on pleasing Lisa and remember that what is good for her career benefits the both of us. I like to think that I do play a part in her success, like I said before, even when ironing her skirts in the morning, I do it with the attitude that it will enhance her day. We men need the direction of a strong, confident, assertive woman.

ANNA
If I were married to you, I would keep you barefoot, and servile. I would expect a clean house and delicious meals every day. If you work outside the home, will you gain a taste for your freedom and want more. I hope Lisa is not making a mistake. You do not need freedom. You need to serve her.

JENNIFER
If Charles was my secretary, he'd have to wear tailored suits and have impeccable grooming. He'd have my coffee and Wall Street Journal on my desk before I arrived for work. He would take dictation. He would have to make all of my personal appointments such as hair, nails and tanning for me. He would call me Ms. S, and answer "yes ma'am" when given an instruction. He would accompany me to business meetings to carry my briefcase for me. He would run all types of errands for me, both business and personal. He would pick up and drop off my dry cleaning, get my car washed, and shop for me when I needed him too... Interested in the job????

CHARLES
Ms. Jennifer S., Actually, at my last job, I did nearly all of these things for my boss. Her name was Susan and she was truly an incredible woman. Although she was a very demanding woman, she actually made it a pleasure to do all of these things for her.

(End of 5th Spousechat Archive Excerpt; more to come…)

Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 4

(Editor’s Note: This is the fourth in a continuing series of samplings from www.spousechat.com, a message board active between 2001 and 2003. What began as a networking site for husbands wed to high-powered executives rapidly morphed into a provocative forum focusing on “matriarchal” (or, as they are more commonly called now, “wife-led marriages.”)

MR. LYNDA
Now that Lynda is gone for the day, I have read her post and your responses. Have Lisa and you ever been part of a matriarchal clan? Lynda talks about this quite frequently. It would be nice to live in a neighborhood of career women with househusbands who acknowledge the woman's leadership in the outside world and family. Have you ever had any problems proclaiming your matriarchal family structure? We have both heard that feminism and matriarchal families are much more supported in Europe. I understand that there are also strong matriarchal groups in German, Belgium, Spain, and Great Britain. (You would think that Great Britain would be a leader; Prince Philip is the ultimate househusband and he had to take his wife's name in marriage.)
As I begin to do more and more of the shopping by myself, I am having a little problem buying tampons and other feminine products. So far, Lynda has always been with me. How do you cope with everyone looking at you? Sometimes I feel I am the most liberated college male in the world. At other times, I feel like a stooge. I am still willing to work on these things; I want to please Lynda. What happens when you have a disagreement? How do you make it up to her after the "battle" is over? I know you have to have your differences. That is the reality of life. Lynda likes me subordinate and submissive.

CHARLES
Yes, we do have disagreements and differences. While I am subordinate to Lisa, there are times when I do argue with her. However, most of the time (probably 99 percent) she is right. When she's angry with me, I have found that she tends to objectify me, that is, she tends to treat me like her employee and talks to me only to give direction. This is her way of showing her displeasure to me. Fortunately for me, Lisa is quick to forgive me and most of our arguments don’t last long at all.
I have no problem buying most of Lisa's personal products, even pantyhose or hair and skin care products at the salon, but I must confess that the feminine hygiene products I do still find incredibly embarrassing to buy. The way to do it is to just mix them in with a large food order at the grocery store, and stay away from the younger checkout employees. The older ones will never say anything, the younger ones have.

MS. LYNDA
Mr. Lisa: I do not have much time, but Mr. Lynda just had to have me read your last entry. I think I remember you saying in one of your postings that Lisa refused to take Home Ec in high school. She did not have time for such classes. She wanted to take some class that would be more useful. In high school, I had a male teacher whose wife was a judge. He was also a househusband. I know several students made fun of him, but I told him how much I admired him. He is now a full-time househusband because his wife is a state Supreme Court judge and he wants to spend time with her. I have also heard of several female doctors who have househusbands. Several major female CEOs have househusbands. This teacher was one of the first to say that he felt women were superior to men and that women were taking over the workplace.
Like you, I have seen young women and their boy friends out shopping or eating at a restaurant, etc. She is clearly in the power seat and he does the serving. Perhaps we need to approach the woman, ask what she is doing, and encourage her to continue her pursuits, telling the young man to support her in every way he knows. My ideas may sound silly, but these are important times for women. It is also an important time for the men who will support them.
We had an experience several weeks ago which I will treasure for a long time. Mr. Lynda and I had decided to meet at a restaurant for supper. He arrived dressed in a nice pair of shorts and a polo shirt. I was late; I had a presentation to make and I was dressed in a dark blue business suit. I ordered for the both of us, unaware that this older man was watching us. He may have been in his early forties. He came up to us before we left and commented on what he had observed. He talked to Mr. Lynda while I paid the bill. He said, "She has you whipped, boy, but there is no better way to be! Just let her have her way. She is going far." He was on his weekly Boys' Night Out. The other friend he was to meet could not show up at the last minute because one of the children had gotten sick. He has been a househusband for over twenty years. He took Mr. Lynda's number; they are going to get together for a Boys' Night Out until we leave for my job later this summer.
The world is changing. How did you feel being addressed by me as Mr. Lisa? You are still Charles, but, you are also part of the Ms. and Mr. Lisa (Smith) matriarchal clan. How do your parents react to you and your role, and your name change? This is important for us to know because our families support our decision at the present time. I am always worried that his family will buck it at the last minute. Would love to write more, but, I have got to leave for work.

MR. LYNDA
I was typing as Ms. Lynda dictated her post to me for this site. As she got going, I could not believe the fervor in her eyes. She is not being silly with the things she is suggesting. For example, I remember that male teacher very well. He was and is a role model. When they met in college, he realized she had the greater potential for earning more money and that he would have to openly support her career so she could become a judge. (She was one of the youngest judges ever elected.) I may be betraying a confidence, but he did tell me that as she became more assertive in her career, she became more assertive in the bedroom. He told me that if I were ever in that position, I should enjoy catering to a woman's sexual needs her way. I have been to the home of the man we met in the restaurant. It is one of the true "show homes" of the area. Two headless male nude statues guard the foyer. He posed for them. Their 18 year old daughter did not graduate from high school because she is enrolled in a college. Their 13 year old son has his household chores to do, and he always helps serve and clean up at supper. We have been invited to have tea with his wife and him. I cannot wait to meet her.

ANONYMOUS BOSSY WOMAN
I do not think a man who opts for a matriarchal life intends to sit on his behind. As a woman, I will gladly support my husband in return for his active support of my career, including giving dinner parties, creating a beautiful home and serene atmospheres, his deference to me as head of the household, allowing me to get in touch with my assertive side which will make me happy, his love and respect which I will return to him, always aware that I have a certain pre-eminence in the family and relationship. There is no way a man can be a lazy do-nothing with this life. He needs to be as strong as any man to take the back seat in the relationship and be subordinate to his spouse.

CHARLES
You couldn’t be more correct. I am constantly busy because my wife, like most career minded women, is very demanding and particular about how she wants things done. You couldn’t be lazy and please Lisa. I would say I work as much and probably more hours per week than most men who have outside careers.

TAKING HER NAME
I am getting married this fall, and my future Wife does not want to change Her name. We talked about me getting a new last name that is my name, hyphen, and Her name. But reading Rob's, and a couple of other posts on the subject, I will ask Her for permission to adopt Her last name. If I, who believe in the matriarchal marriage and family structure, should not spearhead such a tradition, it will never happen.

CHARLES
Although I took my wife's last name when we got married, I've never been called Mr. Lisa (her last name), but I must admit after seeing the above list (i.e., Mr. Betsy B. English, Mr. Catherine Morecold, Mr. Sarah McCowlick, Mr. Senator Mary Shearman, Mr. Senator Jayne Tocsin, etc.) it does make me wonder. Ms. and Mr. Lisa Smith (not real last name). Lynda's future husband is thinking about going by this new convention. I must admit there does not seem to be a more true act of open devotion and subordination.

CHARLES
Ms. Lynda, the fact that you addressed me as Mr. Lisa, without first asking me, really says a lot about you. You obviously are decisive and have no problem making decisions for men. You made the decision to call me Mr. Lisa, without my input. Even though I do not know you, this little thing made me feel very subordinate to you, in a very positive way. Decisiveness in a woman is very comforting and makes me feel secure.
I really agree with you on the Home Economics class. I too am serious about this. Men need to be exposed to the idea of being a househusband at an early age, and need to be told that it is a serious option for them to consider. I have told Lisa about this website and showed her a few of the posts, her one comment was that Lynda sounds just like me. I'm working on her, trying to get her to find some time to write down some of her thoughts for me to post. Perhaps the next time I'm giving her a pedicure or something where she can’t move, I'll hand her a pad and paper. In the meantime, tonight, she has two agents whom she recently hired coming over for dinner. It's my first time meeting them, and I must admit, as enlightened as I feel I am, the first time is still a bit difficult.

MS. LYNDA
How did last evening go? What did you serve to the agents for dinner? How did you serve? Does Lisa hire men as well as women? Are you more comfortable around women than men? What would happen if the women agents brought the men they were dating or to whom they were married? It is awesome to think about the power exchange when the women go to the living room to discuss business while the men are dismissed to do the dishes and prepare the coffee and tea to serve to the women. I also hope you took one moment to introduce yourself in terms of Ms. Lisa being the head of your family. "Welcome to the home of Ms. and Mr. Lisa Smith."

CHARLES
Ms. Lynda, I regret to say that I do not have the courage to do that yet. What I did do, however, was when I greeted them at the door, I introduced myself only as "Lisa's husband", not saying my first name. The first woman, Cathy, did not pick up on this, and asked me my name. The second woman, Terri, had a little bit of fun with me. She said, "Nice to meet you Lisa's husband, I'm Terri. So do you have a name of your own or shall I call you ‘Lisa's husband’ all evening?" I replied, half jokingly, "Yes, it's Charles, but I answer to ‘Lisa's husband,’ ‘Hey you with the apron,’ or even ‘Mr. Lisa.’” Terri laughed and said "Well, I see this is going to be fun." The three women sat down, I took their drink orders, got their drinks, and then went back to the kitchen to finish dinner. I made Maryland crab cakes with honey mustard sauce, a spinach salad, and herb roasted potatoes.
How did I serve? Like a waiter, with an exceptionally servile attitude. The women absolutely loved it, and when Lisa explained our household arrangement, they loved it even more. They had lots of questions for Lisa and me over dinner which I happily answered. After dinner, I made coffee for them, they went into the living room and talked business for a while, while I cleaned up. After cleaning up, I went in and politely asked "Will there be anything else, ladies?" Lisa's guests thanked me and replied no.
Lisa said "No, that'll be all, but before you go to bed, Charles, go through my closet and see if you can find that orange print skirt, you know, the flowered one that I bought in St Croix last year? It'll probably need to be ironed but you can do that in the morning, just see if you can find it tonight, I want to wear it tomorrow." "Yes" I replied and left the room, I could hear them talking, "Wow, he does your ironing too!"
Yes, Lisa hires men as well as women. She has a male receptionist, a male assistant, and 4 or 5 male agents. There are about 20 female agents. Like I said in a previous posting, the real estate industry is completely dominated by women. If any men want to know what it's like to be a subordinate to a woman, get a job as a secretary in a real estate agency. These women are all aggressive, assertive women and have no problems giving orders to men. I must say, it is more comfortable when Lisa's guests don’t bring dates or husbands, but if they do, I'm cool with it. I act the same way, as does Lisa.

MS. LYNDA
Dear Mr. Lisa, Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I think you did the right thing in your introduction. As I said before, you are still Charles; I just think it is as important to be Mr. Lisa Smith as shamelessly as possible.
What kind of apron do you wear? My boyfriend got several as graduation presents. I gave him one that says "I belong to Her", his mother gave him one that says, "A Man's Place Is In The Kitchen", and one of our professors gave him, "Househusband". I have a t shirt that this same professor gave me that says, "A Woman's Place Is In The House, and Senate, and Oval Office."
Did you tell the women that you took Lisa's last name in marriage? Since these women enjoyed your service so much, did they say they wanted a man at home like you? Are you jealous or supportive of the men Lisa hires, especially in traditional female roles like receptionist and secretary-assistant? When you go out, does Lisa order for you and pay for everything? When you go on vacation, do you make the hotel reservations in Lisa's name? What do your neighbors think? Do you know any other househusbands? Since some of the men who post here suggest that their women are not as aggressive and assertive as Lisa or I, could they find happiness as a subordinate spouse who is active in real estate? Are you ever introduced as woman and husband? This would be a reversal of man and wife. It makes it sound like you belong to Lisa.
Enough questions for today. I cannot wait until Mr. Lynda is in the same boat of entertaining. One more question that just came to me. If Lisa were to throw such a big party that you needed help, would you hire a boy before a woman to assist you or to serve the party while you and Lisa mingled? At public parties, with whom do you mingle?

CHARLES
Ms. Lynda, I hope I can adequately address all of your questions, I will try my best. My apron is just a basic dark green apron, nothing fancy, although I love the one you gave to your boyfriend. Yes, the topic of the name change came up, and both women praised me for taking Lisa's surname, and yes, they were continually asking where they could find a man like me (both are single and not dating currently). As Terri put it, it was very "refreshing to see a man take a back seat to a woman for a change". I think it's great that Lisa hires men for the traditional female jobs like receptionist and secretary. As I said earlier, I worked first as a receptionist, then a secretary, and then a personal assistant at a real estate agency, so I have had these subordinate roles with women for quite a while. At restaurants Lisa lets me order for myself but she pays. On vacations, I have to make the reservations in Lisa's name because she is the one with the credit cards (I have one with a small limit for emergencies and such). I don't know any other househusbands, but I'd love to meet some.
My neighbors think I'm a great husband, they all know Lisa is in charge, two of the neighborhood women have been over to our house numerous times and have seen what our relationship is like first hand. As a matter of fact, Lisa has them over sometimes and I'll do their nails or give them facials. A man looking for a woman like you or Lisa could start by taking a job as a receptionist at a real estate agency or at a female-run law firm. This will expose him to powerful, assertive women and he can possibly build a relationship that way. I've never needed to hire any help for a party, but if I did, I'm absolutely certain Lisa would want male help. At public parties, I stay by Lisa's side, at her beck and call, so to speak. May I ask you, Ms. Lynda, regarding the subject of finances, how do you intend to handle your household’s finances when you get married?

MS. LYNDA
We are going to be married in the Episcopal Church with a woman priest. She has been giving us a lot of pre-Cana encounters and we have had to discuss our financial situation. In a fantasy world, all the accounts would be in my name and Mr. Lynda would have to beg for his allowance. That is not right. I have a savings account and a trust fund that will stay in my name only. I have a second savings account that will be a joint account. Our checking account will be a joint account. We have done something like you and Lisa have done. We both have credit cards. However, mine is for a much larger amount. He can use his for emergencies.
It may seem funny, but as a woman who wants to have the power in the relationship, I must learn which things are important. At this point, I feel the need to have control over the finances. However, they may prove to be an item that the man should handle so I do not have to be bothered on a day to day basis. We could go over the accountings on a weekly basis and he could keep me informed. Do you think this is a reason some relationships do not work?
We have already discussed the fears that some people might have because a female centered relationship might look like an S and M relationship. I want slavish devotion. I am not sure I want a mindless slave. And I do not want to whip and hurt Mr. Lynda even though I tease him about being my property and my chattel.
For graduation, someone gave him a dog collar and they gave me a leash. I have used it, but, only in fun. Money concerns hurt so many relationships. Mr. Lynda knows I love him and trust him. Why would I choose a fool? He can hold up a conversation and can be one of the most charming people in the world. On top of that, he is a great love, being attentive to my needs. Maybe because it is so new to us, I love to take him to a fancy restaurant, order for him, and treat him. As I said, men must be encouraged to be subordinate and women must gain the confidence to be assertive.

MS. LYNDA
I am having the time of my life at this very moment that I write to you. While I am at the computer, my boyfriend is underneath the desk. He is giving me a foot massage and some oral sex. If I do not make sense at some moment in the email, you will understand why.
This has been a great day for women. A woman has been named President of one of the country's leading universities. I long for the day when it is just accepted and the woman does her job because she was the best for the position.
There are a couple of things I have to offer this evening. I am a Woman of Enlightenment. I know what I want and i know I will get what I want. I do have my moments of doubt however. As women, we have been raised to ask the questions: Am I being too bossy? Am I hurting his feelings? Am I thinking only of myself? The matriarchal world that is coming will be different from the patriarchal world in many ways. Our leadership skills are different. In many ways, I feel they are superior to the skills men have. We need to gain confidence. So much for me.
Now, Mr. Lisa, you say that you are enlightened, and I am confident you are. I have decided to always ask a man if he enjoys being called Mr. Lisa Smith. Men have expected women to give up their names so easily and for so long. Even if a couple will take the man's name, a man should have the feeling of being called by his wife's first and last name as the family name. I would hope that this would create even more respect for his wife. I think junior and senior high school aged boys should be required to write the name of their girlfriends like Ms. and Mr. Lauren Tyler.
What an honor you have to be Mr. Lisa Smith in a very formal way. Give the honor and prestige to Lisa by also being Mr. Lisa Smith. After you have done it, ask yourself: How do I feel giving up my identity? What honor do I give Lisa by proclaiming her leadership in our family? Even if you cannot be Mr. Lisa for whatever reasons you and she may have, the experiment can only do positive things for you and your relationship.
I was at lunch today with five other women who will be getting married within the next year and a half. Three are keeping their names in marriage. Two are taking the name of their husband. I asked each to ask their boyfriend how he would feel taking her name in marriage. My point is that he may have a greater respect for her and her role in the family if he realizes what she is giving up. I think I am going to make it a mission of mine to encourage young women to ask that questions of their future spouses. I am for freedom for everyone. I just want the matriarchal to stand shamelessly with the patriarchal. I like the idea that young man had about having a matriarchal street where children could be raised to appreciate woman's leadership.
What was the response of your mother and father when you told them you were taking Lisa's last name? What was the response of Lisa's parents? How would they react to you being Mr. Lisa Smith in formal documents? This may sound like a silly or no big issue, but it is a big issue. Men need our guidance and direction. They need some sensitivity training.
Thank you all you men out there who are attempting to understand my vision. I do not hate men, I just want every option open to them. That includes being cared for by the wife in such a way that they support her openly and outwardly. I would encourage women to tell men that the women find him handsome, adorable, and a turn on. This would do much to boost the ego of the man. He needs to think of himself as a sex object for women. If you do not know it yet, women talk a lot about men. We should not be afraid to share the information with our friends.
In the family living classes at high schools, there should always be one couple where the woman is the breadwinner and the man is the househusband who took her name. What examples this could bring to any classroom discussion. At the present time, I am not sure that men are not scared of their shadows. I am a Woman on a Mission with a very well trained boyfriend. I am addressing this to all you couples, men and women out there. You can help me with the training of my boyfriend and I can help you get even deeper into your respectful support of Women.

MS. LYNDA
I have been enjoying the discussion we have been having, but, I must ask a couple of questions. When a woman asks a question of you, why do you avoid giving a complete answer? I can understand your need for discretion, and, I could accept that you are unable to give a complete answer for numerous reasons. What I cannot accept is that you are ignoring a woman. Have the courtesy to say you are unable to give a complete answer. How difficult is it to give up the power males once had? I feel like we are playing a game at times. You surrender only what you are able to surrender. To please me, you must attempt to give a complete surrender. I am still learning how to be the head and boss. Give me encouragement. I will do the same for you in allowing you to relish in your subordinate status. And I truly believe that means always supplying for you so you can be subordinate and submissive. Does this make any sense to you men? While I like the competition with men, I also like the power that comes from besting them and not having to always compete.

CHARLES
I apologize, Ms. Lynda, if at times I don't give a complete answer. I too am still learning, even after all these years. And I really am trying my best to completely answer all of your questions. If I have fallen short in some respects, remember, I am a man, and like all men, I need guidance from a woman. I will try to do better in the future.
Yes, everything you say makes sense. You are the future of womankind--strong, powerful, authoritative, assertive, and sensitive to the needs of the subordinate man under you. I am going to try to do better, and surrender more completely to both Lisa at home, and to you here. It is difficult for men to give up our former power because men are afraid. We have to be taught that women are not looking to eliminate the male sex, but rather to take care of the men, provide for them, and protect them, in exchange for, essentially, a total transfer of power to the woman, and total obedience to the woman, to insure that all of her needs and wants, no matter how small, are met. In return, she will earn a living and take care of the man. Fear is the reason men are definitely afraid. Once again, please forgive me if I have not given you a complete answer, but I have tried. Have a great day, Ms. Lynda.

MS. LYNDA AND MR. LYNDA
I, Mr. Lynda, am typing this for Ms. Lynda and will also be commenting. It is good to hear from Ms. and Mr. Lisa Smith because you have probably hit the happy point where people can respect your life together and you can further the cause of matriarchy. Of course, we want to go even further. Lynda has her doubts that she will be taken as seriously as she needs to be taken so that she can be a success. Secondly, she fears getting the reputation of being a "Bitch". It is horrible that an aggressive man is thought in the best of terms while a woman is a "bitch." How can we make this stop?
For me, I am happiest when I am in a supporting position. I do not have the drive that Lynda has. I am happy to sit back and do everything I can to support her drive. There are times when I wonder about myself. I do not know too many men like myself. So, Mr. Lisa (Charles), it is good to hear from you. I am so lucky to have found what I need. I hope Lynda will be as happy.
While Lynda and I do not have a typical "sex life", we are not heavily into BDSM. That is not really a part of our life. We do play. She has tied me to the bed and has led me around on a leash. She also demands a lot of oral attention from me. We really feel that everyone needs to express themselves as they see fit. However, is it possible that men want BDSM and women want our devotion and obedient submission? While I do not want this to become a porn letter, it might help if you outlined some of the things you and Lisa do as sexual beings. I am lucky that Lynda is so demanding. I like being bossed around by her, including in a sexual way. I feel we are "normal" for what we want.
Is the matriachy concept so new to us that we are only living in a fantasy world? Perhaps some of you other couples will respond and tell us about your life. After the posting the other day from Anonymous, Lynda has been excited about the concept of a Matriarchal Village. Is this just a dream, or is it a possibility? What more can we do to make it easier for women? Or is it right to make it hard for them so they become stronger and stronger? "If we earn the right to lead, it cannot be taken from us. If men are bested by us, they will just have to learn to cope with it. It is the way of the new world."
One of the great things to happen to women was the establishment of women's studies in colleges. It is important to have a sense of herstory. Do we need to do the same thing for matriarchal couples? It is amazing to read stories about men in the 19th century who took their wife's last name. In this Jubilee year for Queen Elizabeth II, it might be important to hear the stories of how she dealt with Prince Philip, a man who is the ultimate househusband who took his wife's last name. In public, he must always defer to her and from some readings, she demands it. We know they have had their problems, but they are still together. He is still walking six paces behind and he is still required to call her Ma'am. We know who our heroines and heroes are for Black studies, for gay studies, and for feminist studies. Who are they for our matriarchal studies?

MS. LYNDA
I am taking over. Throughout my college experience, we have talked about human beings’ need for ritual. Do we need to have some new rituals for a woman centered relationship? I am glad that you are not jealous of the men Lisa employs in the clerical end of her business. How do they dress? I do not know if it would suggest a lack of professional attitude, but, I would love to go into Lisa's business and see all the agents (men and women) in corporate business suits and the clerical men in more casual clothes that said, "I am of a lower status here and I am male." I would like to see more women driving the cars and more men riding alongside her. (This is something that I do not do often enough. I allow myself to be driven.) I would like to see a new language. I am a feminist, and I still use some traditional forms that use masculine terms.

NEWEL
The duality that many of us face with regards to our inner desires to submit and allowing the woman to assert her dominance over us is very troubling as well as painful. All the talk of Female Supremacy is not going to change the way a man feel's conflicted over the loss of his power and sense of maleness, while at the same time finding a true inner peace, through that submission. The human soul is very complex and the integration of our male and female attributes and energies is I believe needed if we are to be whole. If I may, I would suggest that you back off from your actions and give your self a chance to adapt. Exchanging Power with your mate is tricky and complicated. You should know there is a phenomenon known as "Sub Drop", feelings of guilt and depression after an act of submission. Again, this can be overcome with discussion and often acts as a bonding experience between you and your spouse (lover). Your Spouse needs to help you to see that your submission allows for her dominance to exist. Also the recurrent feelings you have to submit is a real event that occurs in submissive persons. I hope this helps and remember our need to submit is and can be a great connection to other areas of our selves that would other wise remain under developed.

(End of 4th Spousechat installment. To be continued.)