Thursday, September 24, 2009
Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 9
(Editor’s Note: The ninth in a continuing series of samplings from the defunct “Spousechat” message board. Though starting with a rambling confessional posting from a cuckold, this excerpt deals mainly with the religious aspect of matriarchal marriage, especially the provocative postings by "Mr. Louise." The next and final installment will continues the explorations of the religious basis for wife-led marriages.)
Ms. Lynda: I have been married to a wonderful woman for the past five years. Without ever knowing of spousehood or any specific lifestyle, we settled pretty naturally into our arrangement. We are both professionals and have careers, but my wife is the head of the family. She consults me on many decisions, but her decision is final. I direct deposit my check into our account which is under her name and is controlled completely by her (with a small allowance given to me each week).
She is not physically abusive of me though I do occasionally merit a slap for disobedience or laziness, which she reluctantly metes out. This sounds worse than it is and I tell no one that she ever disciplines me physically, that is between the two of us. After about our third year of marriage I took her last name per her request and am delighted to be known as Ms. and Mr. Caroline Moss.
Somehow, by quirk of our slow progress to her control I got into the habit, first ironic, of calling her "mother" or "mommy" at home when she asserted her control. I found this accelerated her progress towards dominance and so did it more and more, secretly (at first I didn't even know) thrilled that she was becoming the woman I knew she was: proud, dominant, assertive. Yet the metaphor of mothering became so important in our lives that she would have me suckle when she wasn't "in the mood" to have sex. Her wardrobe, too, became more motherly and modest: large white cotton panties replaced sexy thongs. Modest solid and flower print dresses replaced short skirts. Gradually over the years I've learned to relinquish control and no longer flinch when she publicly scolds me, orders my dinners at restaurants, or picks clothes for me at a department store; I've even called her "mother" or "mommy" in front of friends, relatives, neighbors and strangers.
The problem is that as our roles have become more unequal, sex has become scarcer and scarcer, until finally four months ago we had a tearful confrontation. After hours of cajoling her into the truth, she confessed that she felt like my mommy and that she was attracted to stronger more "confident" and assertive men. I tried to pretend not to be hurt and simply did what came naturally: submitted in any way I could - by sobbing that if she needed more I would understand...so long as we could stay together. After that we cuddled a bit and made love. I don't think I fully understood what I was saying that day but I think it came out and awful lot like "permission.
Soon afterwards (about 1 month later) I noticed that, while I still always see her in her mommy dresses and mommy underwear, a secret drawer was/is developing with never-before-seen-in-this-house Victoria's Secret panties and bras. Thongs, see-throughs, silk and sheer, sexy black lace, and all kinds of stockings. The edge of her closet space now has leather pants, tight bosom-revealing blouses, and short skirts, though I never see her in these clothes. She has a new cell phone on a different plan than and secretes away when she gets calls on it. Frankly, after what happened yesterday, I'm sure she's 'dating' or planning to and it kills me that I don't know who it is (though I'm sure I wouldn't like to know either).
Our sex life meanwhile has become tremendous; it's perhaps a combination of her guilt and my desire to be physically loved. Whatever the reasons, our sex, though always one position and one attitude (female superior), has gone up literally sixteenfold. I don't know if I should confront her or consider my marriage saved. She says she is happy with us and even our sex life again, loves me, and wouldn't dream of leaving. When I try to pester her about her new clothes, her phone, or her late nights out, she claims that I should be happy at home, not snoop through her things, and just be obedient or I'm going to get a slap.
Yesterday, however, came the last straw and the most significant moment. She gave me my weekly shopping list. On it, in no special place and without warning, she writes "beyond seven ultra thin 12 pack condoms" even though I got a vasectomy 2 years ago when we decided against children. If I just buy these without any discussion, then I'm just agreeing to be happy with the situation as she defines it, aren't I? I think this is why she decided to do it this way, which I think is sneaky. Don't get me wrong part of me is strangely happy for her. I'm glad she's found somebody to satisfy her physically and I'm sorry it couldn't be just me. Truth be told, I already bought the condoms along with everything else and will probably just slip them quietly into her bag without a fuss, as she expects. It's not worth losing my marriage over. In your estimation can a marriage work with this arrangement? My greatest fear is that she will fall in love with someone else, not that she'll sleep with someone else. Should I just trust her judgment and emotional maturity? She's never let me down before....
Momma's Boy, Robert Moss.
I urge you to be careful! My wife and I have been married for many years and know firsthand how difficult it is to live with cuckoldry. At first I urged her to do it. But as my marital bed was taken over by another,I regretted it for months. She became emotionally attached to her lover, and would not give him up. Soon I was moved into the guest room and made love only to stolen pairs of her stockings, underwear, and shoes. When they broke up she accepted me into her bed again. But to this day she is less thrilled with me sexually and occasionally finds joy outside of our sheets. We survived, but at a high cost.
I am going to write more when I arrive home. However, I do think a marriage like this can be saved. You must discuss these things. You must try harder to make the marriage work. Mr. Lynda and I do not have all the answers. We also do not have a female dominant marriage. We have a matriarchy and a female superior marriage. If I have chastised Mr. Lynda, it was in fun and joking. I get myself into a lot of trouble because I am a very open person. I am not a lesbian, but I do firmly believe in same sex marriages. I would never dress Mr. Lynda in dresses, but, if others wish to do so, I cannot and will not stop it. However, some things do seem to lead to other activities that are not so healthy. For me (and I mean only me and Mr. Lynda), marriage is a sared institution and Mr. Lynda has promised to obey me. He still has a brain and uses it. In fact, we fight quite often over issues. I have the final say. I would not consider it a breach of ethics if he proved me wrong. It takes a BIG WOMAN to admit her mistakes. Thankfully, I do not make too many of them. Good luck.
I'm soo tired, I've been cleaning the kitchen all daylong and i think in a couple of hours I'll be finishing my work. My wife arrived home and kissed me and told me she is proud of such a househusband. I think I'm doing it better and I like Ms. Elena giving me her approval. I'm really happy.
Just before summer our housekeeper of 5 years retired. Throughout the summer my wife and I took turns cleaning and cooking, depending on who had the time.
When the school session started in September, Linda returned to her teaching job. Now the only free time any of us had were evenings and weekends. My job is pretty much a nine-to-five with lots of flexibility. Her teaching job requires many evening meetings or work at home. So when it came to who was going to do the housework, it was easy to see that I was the most logical choice. I told Linda that I would be happy to take over all housework. She agreed...
I scheduled time off work every other Friday afternoon. On those days I spend several hours cleaning. At 4:00 I begin dinner preparations. When she returns home from work on Friday evening I greet her at the door and am freshly showered. In just two months my duties have escalated to picking up every evening before retiring to bed, cooking all evening and weekend meals, laundry, grocery shopping.
For Mr. Lynda and myself, we have defined our roles and feel little need to placate society. I am the BOSS and he loves it that way. Some people who know us feel I am a lifestyle Dominatrix. But I just like being in charge. Mr. Lynda loves being subordinate and submissive. We discuss things. (I almost always have the final say.) Mr. Lynda is a male and he is my servant husband. It is very erotic to appreciate his body and to have him worship mine. We just got married this past summer. Our sex life is very active. I have always enjoyed having a man go down on me and Mr. Lynda spends a lot of time on his knees. We both love it when I sit on his face. We have intercourse about every night.
I do not know much about the Tea Societies in California, but they are popular elsewhere also. I have served as a server in Missouri, Kansas, and Arkansas. For the ones I have served, it was like a formal English tea with butlers to serve the tea and food. However, we were completely naked except for a bow tie and chain necklace. We were not allowed to talk to the women in attendance. They ranged in age from 19 or 20 to 55 or 60. At a smaller tea part in Missouri, the hostess arranged for every woman to have her own tea server. At that party, we had to polish their nails and give them a foot massage before the event. We then went to clean up and get the food ready. After the tea, the servers had to do all the cleaning up. At most of the parties, the hostess has the house in party ready condition before our arrival. In that way, we can concentrate on our service to the women. If you have the opportunity to serve one of these tea parties, jump at the chance. It is a very rewarding experience. I was asked if I was interested in a job as a woman's butler / servant at one of the parties. We are in negotiations now.
I am happy to see a support network like this for men just like myself and strong, capable women like Mrs. Louise. She is a rock and a tower of strength and I'm glad to submit to her in any way I can. We were married last year and were fully aware of our roles before we walked down the aisle. I took her name. No, not secretly and not just on paper. We walked into our reception as Ms. and Mr. D. (her name) and I've never looked back. We are glad we have found a church (Unitarian) and a community (a support group of house husbands) that supports our matriarchal lifestyle. We are sure that Goddess has intended our union to be wife-centered and wife-led. She is the authority I recognize and submit to and in turn she loves, cherishes and supports me. I urge all men to submit completely: not just sexually. That is the easy part. Submit to your wife's discipline (yes, we believe in loving marital discipline), her control over the finances, her right to make decisions with or without consulting you. In our house, this has led to the blessings of matriarchy: greater harmony, peace, and togetherness. Recognize the image of your Heavenly Mother in your wife each day and you will submit naturally and feel good doing it!
Such cases are quite common these days. I am a submissive person by nature and even in our domestic relationship, it is my wife who rules. She is a keen horseback rider and often when she rides, she asks me to walk behind her horse. It is her way of showing to the world her dominant position in our relationship. My wife has become accustomed to giving the orders and expects me to follow her orders. Even among our social circle, she openly displays her superiority and domination over me.
In your group, Mr. Louise, how many men are known by their wife's last name? How many of these men have children? Are they raising the children to appreciate matriarchy?
Most are legally, but all are known that way in our personal group. Only a few couples (five) have had a chance for children yet and, yes, I do believe that all of those husbands are the primary caretaker. They love their beautiful kids (ages between 2 and 12) and teach them about the honor of Mommy's special leadership role and daddy's beautiful and loving submission to Mommy per Mother God's wondrous plan in their lives. I for one firmly believe that in our wickedly male-obsessed society that a boy should be taught to submit to his Mother God and pray each night that She will send to him a Woman to govern him with as much love and wisdom as his mommy has. And, though I know few people agree, I do think boy children should be physically disciplined and punished by their mothers only. And I don't think girls should be physically punished in any way, and least of all by their fathers! A Girl needs room to explore just how God has made her different, and responsible - not just for herself- but for her future husband who, God willing, will serve her faithfully. But boys need boundaries and discipline set exclusively by their mothers, or they'll never learn in our society how to give true submission to their future wives from their deepest heart and soul.
In my case, the whole situation of my wife being the dominant partner came to pass because professionally she held a far superior position than I did, and earned much more money than I did. She is a senior executive at work and is often in a position where she gives instructions to her male and female subordinates. It was natural that she assume the dominant role at home too. I am not ashamed to be called a subservient husband. She has shown me what my position is with respect to her and I have accepted it.
My role is clearly to support my wife's blossoming professional career. With my wife earning much more than I do, she clearly holds the dominant position in the house. Her executive position entails her to a classy membership in an equestrian club. I show my loyalty and subservience to her by walking behind her horse while she rides on the grounds. She gets to prove her supremacy by issuing orders which I follow. In this day and age, it is very important to accept the superiority of a woman and for a professionally successful woman, it is important that her spouse bow down to her and be available to serve her in whatever manner she wants.
Our study group is currently 22 husbands and 3 men with significant others. Of those, about half are younger than their wives/girlfriends about half are older. Ms. Louise is slightly my senior. About one third of the men stay at home full/almost full time. The rest of us work outside of the home at least part time. One of our husbands is his wife's secretary/executive assistant in her own stay-at-home business. One husband is currently involved in a matriarchal multiple marriage with his wife and his best friend, which was a new one to Ms. Louise and myself - she kidded me for weeks about that one (though I found it less funny). I did have to admit, given the history of men and multiple wives, that a matriarch in theory could take on multiple husbands, but reminded her gently that unfortunately for her our country makes the practice illegal.
Thank you for the very inspiring information. Mr. Lynda would love to be part of a matriarchal community. It has been so nice having the posts of Mr. Lisa. It has also been nice to know that we can change things; it was through our discussions that Mr. Lisa decided to become Mr. Lisa in the most formal of ways. We know several men who are doing this. We hope that it becomes more and more. In your group, how many men are known by their wife's last name? I again want to thank you for bringing in the spiritual dimension of the matriarchal family. How many of these men have children? Are they raising the children to appreciate matriarchy? Since it happened to us, we have heard of several couples who have had to adjust their lives to the woman's career since she got the best offers at graduation. As this happens more and more, men will get more comfortable in the supportive position. This summer we had a high school student intern who wants to have a career and a supportive, submissive househusband. More and more women are thinking about these things. Thanks to all of you who are making it happen!
Ms Louise has asked me to write a short description of my spirituality and how matriarchy has helped our lives together. First of all, my spouse support group began as a discussion group at my Unitarian church in the Metro D.C. area. It was a biblical discussion group for husbands of women in leadership roles. Our moderator is a wonderful married deaconess in the church. She teaches the class with her husband who remains silent. We choose to worship God the Mother, Queen, and Creator of Nature. Our study revolves around the Mother's plan for our wives as representing Her; Being the Queen of her household; Being the Mother of our home; The Mistress of our financial lives; the Lady who we serve; and our Teacher/Matron. I can say that many in our group are in various stages of submission to our wives but our goal is to achieve better and perfect submission to our wives. My wife is the absolute center of our home. I have learned complete submission of our finances (though I work, I get an allowance), our home (which means my wife decides all with my loving help, and gives me maternal discipline), and our sex life (which means she decides when, where, and how which for me as for all submissive men is a thrill).
Don't get me wrong sex is very important. Men are very visual in sex and submissive men and often looking for a representation of their mothers to control them. There is no shame in that. For us it means that Ms. Louise dresses very maternally. She does this to thrill me and provoke submission. In her professional life she wears the pants, literally, and sensible flats. Any one of our friends know just what I mean when I jokingly say I am under her skirt and that our marriage is "a petticoat government." They can see her obvious maternal/matriarchal control over our house and accept us. It is no secret. My greatest thrill in our social life is when we have a few friends over and the wives all talk openly to each other and the men are finally lulled by Ms. Louise's dominance and their own wives into quiet, sensible submission. The sound of male quiet during female conversation is the music of a matriarchal home. If I excitedly offer my opinion, Ms. Louise often returns me to my place with a loving chide: "Honey, please, the women are speaking now." And that is the motto of our matriarchy: the women ARE speaking now; men, you've had your chance, and please be silent.
Women have an awesome responsibility in our day and age. The modern world is the era of the female principle. How do we know this? Simple: women are graduating in much higher numbers from college today than men (almost 60%-40%); women are more risk-averse and therefore better investors; women repay their loans at higher rates than men; women live longer, healthier lives; and finally women have gained recognized legal control over their bodies and sexualities (if you don't believe that just consult your local abortion and sexual harassment laws); childless women today earn exactly what men do. Also, modern men are increasingly encouraged to display and love the female in themselves: being in touch with one's feminine side, respecting your mother, respect for and comfort with your body, knowing how to nurture, being gentle and kind, and being morally refined. I think this is all for the best.
Now boys, if you will excuse me, I'm going to go and draw Ms. Louise a nice, long hot bath with rose hip and sandal wood oil and fix her tea. She's spent all night at the office and is waiting for my attention. I, as I hope all matriarchal men, would rather wash and massage her body, shave her legs, get her silky robe, spray her aroma therapy, put on her soft music and just listen to her day over chocolate and sparkling wine than almost anything else in God's world.
Your posting is so sweet. It is good to know that there is a real community out there. Mr. Lynda and I feel like missionaries sometimes, and we have people who know and support what we are doing. Also, it is good to hear that your matriarchal marriage defies limits, but is a total thing in all areas. That is what Mr. Lynda and I strive for in our life. The concept of matriarchy is total in all areas, not just career or sex. Thank you for your writing.
(End of Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 9 – to be continued)
Wednesday, September 16, 2009
Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 8
(Editor’s Note: This eighth in a continuing series of samplings from the “Spousechat” message board continues the discussion of matriarchal marriage, primarily between Ms. Lynda and Mr. Lisa, but with several others contributing.)
Last night, as I was cleaning the kitchen, I was thinking to myself, what more can I do for my wife. I do so much for her now, but I want to do more. What other ways can I pamper her and make her life easier? Any ideas?
I admire you very much because you have helped Mr. Lynda realize he is not the only supportive, househusband to an executive, working woman. When I looked at your latest posting, I was touched. I am happy you want to do even more for Ms. Lisa. However, ask if she is happy first. You may need to take some classes at a local college so you are able to have even more serious discussions with her. I do not know what you look like, but, you may want to work on how you look. Just as some men want a "trophy" wife, Ms. Lisa might want a "trophy" husband that all women envy. (You may even further the cause by your handsome demeanor. If people know you chose to be subordinate to Ms. Lisa that might make things even more appealing.) As Mr. Lynda and I create our little spot in the universe, we both feel that each must do their own thing. While the other person to respond to you has suggested a sexy nightgown, I want Mr. Lynda to always be manly. It makes me feel even more powerful to know that a manly man submits to me. However, each to their own. This is only my opinion.
I have one more idea. Just as some men enjoy the public adoration of their wives, I think I will enjoy the very public adoration of Mr. Lynda when it becomes even more popular to do so. At the present time, we must be very discreet because it is still not the norm that a man stays home while the wife works and that a man would take the wife's name as his own. As people become more comfortable with our life, it would be nice to have Mr. Lynda admit in public that it is my earnings that supply the life, that I am the boss at home, and that he enjoys being a corporate spouse. You men are showing great courage doing what you are doing. The day may come when we can celebrate it even more. I hope the day comes when men like Mr. Lisa serve parties like he has done for Ms. Catherine and Ms. Lisa and it will be no big thing. It will be what should happen because the man has the time to prepare and serve a great party. Women have been doing it for centuries. Good luck!
MODERN DAY AMAZON WOMAN
I am a modern day Amazon because I feel it is becoming a woman's world and I revolted during college. I sought out a weaker man who would cater to me. I have never laid a hand on my husband, but, he knows I could defeat him so quickly and make him my slave. He serves out of fear and out of respect. Both work for me. Like Ms. Lynda and Ms. Lisa, I make it easy for Jim to submit to me because I do love him. By the way, while it is no big thing, Jim also took my last name when we married. I tease him about being Mr. Amazon Warrior/Woman.
My wife is a very meek and quiet person, as I am myself. Also, I am physically much stronger than she. Nevertheless, I know there is an Amazon down inside of her. The times when she has given me an "order" (subtly disguised because of the children) my heart has trembled. If only she knew the power she has over me and would wield it for the good of our home! I have told her this, but still she neglects to use it as much as I need. I am quite the beast apart from the taming influence of Woman.
We have our own business adjacent to our home so we both stay at home. It is a seasonal business so sometimes we are pretty slow. When we updated our corporation license recently I put her down as president, while I took the title of secretary-treasurer.
There are many men who are beginning to realize that a woman's place is in charge and in control. I've been busy the past two days putting most of Lisa's summer wardrobe away and getting her fall wardrobe ready. This means lots of laundry, ironing and trips to the dry cleaners. Also, soon Lisa will be back to wearing pantyhose as the cooler weather comes, so this morning she gave me a shopping list which required a trip to Victoria's Secret to get her four pair of pantyhose (Lisa really likes their pantyhose, although at $14 a pair, I think they are expensive). I approached the counter and told the saleswoman why I was there, and of course, she smiled and thought it was great. Two customers at the counter also thought it was fantastic that my wife sent me out to buy her pantyhose. The four of us had a conversation about my situation, my duties, and my status as a househusband. Each of these women thought I was the greatest thing since sliced bread. When I mentioned that my wife had a real estate agency, one of the women asked if I had one of her cards (which I always carry). So I gave this woman a card since she is in the market for a home. Then it was off to the hair salon to get Lisa's shampoo and styling gel. I usually dread going there because the woman who owns and runs this salon likes to tease me and embarrass me. Also, I made the mistake of going there after Victoria's Secret, so I walked into the salon with the VS bag. The salon owner, of course, was there and was at the desk when I walked in. She saw the bag and said, loudly I may add, "Oh, it's you, the little househusband, how are you? Aww, did she send you out to buy her underwear?" I nodded yes. "Let me see what you bought her" she said, so I handed her the bag. "Oh, pantyhose, isn't that nice?" she said. It was a slow day, so several of the stylists were standing at the desk, they all were giggling and smiling and making little comments. Finally she just said to me "We love teasing you, you know that, don’t you?" And of course I replied yes. I made my purchases and came home. Now that I'm thinking about it, being teased like that by these very attractive women was very exciting. Usually it isn't, but today, for some reason, it is. I wonder why?
I always enjoy reading your postings since you help Mr. Lynda accept his role more easily; I wish you were able to comment more often. However, I am also very glad that Ms. Lisa keeps you busy. While I really do not like to see anyone put down and humiliated, I do enjoy those times when men are given the experiences that women have had for years. Now, I have a confession. I have forgotten your name Mr. Lisa. To me, you are always Mr. Lisa, and I cannot remember your male name. The other day, I called my husband Mr. Lynda in front of friends because my mind went blank and I could not remember his male name. (I was very tired. It came back to me within a nanosecond.) He just laughed and said he enjoyed it! I enjoyed it too.
Ms. Lynda, although the experience at the salon was somewhat humiliating at the time, after I left I found it exciting. Even now a few days later, it is exciting to me and I almost can't wait to go back. In a way, I guess I was happy to entertain the women there. You are correct, women have been objectified for years and now it's our turn. As far as my name, it's an honor to be known as Mr. Lisa, and the fact that you call me only by this name is a constant reminder to me of my place. Thank you.
Being objectified is fairly harmless and in a strange way it makes me feel kinda appreciated. My female friend who suggested I use this silly nick on the board has a habit of leering at me from time to time. We have a somewhat flirtatious relationship anyway. At work I've been stared at, whistled at, groped and just short of being violated by women. I usually tell them "thank you so much! It doesn't happen nearly often enough!" and they get as big a kick out of the whole incident as I do. LOL
It is interesting how the tables are turning. I used to think a man's only worth was from his abilities. Now, it seems we're being gauged on our appearance too the way women have always been.
[Mr. Lisa: “…being teased like that by these very attractive women was very exciting”]
Exciting to read too! (and I'm a bit envious) With the comment "We love teasing you, you know that don’t you?" she is showing that she has accepted your position with women and enjoys reinforcing it. I expect the teasing will continue, probably in a more playful way, from now on. Think of yourself as an advertisement, in this hair salon, of how a woman-focused marriage can be.
Who knows? Maybe one of the patrons, years from now, will stop you on the street and say "Thank you - what an inspiration you've been to me! I've used your relationship as a model for my own, teaching my husband how to properly serve me. Please give my phone number to your wife - I'd love to thank her as well."
I asked Lisa yesterday if there was perhaps something more I could do for her to make her life easier. She told me that she really hates shaving her legs and that if I could come up with a system to do it for her, it would be great. I’ve done it before for her, but never on a routine basis. It's not practical for me or for her to do it while she's in the shower, so I was thinking if anyone had any ideas it would be appreciated. What I want to do is to turn it from a chore to a relaxing pampering experience for her each morning.
Mr Lisa, I'm not sure what your morning routine is like right now or what Ms. Lisa's preferences are like. However, you might consider starting a morning bathing routine (instead of a shower). You could get up a little earlier and fill the tub with warm water and bubble bath, then wake her when everything is ready. You could even greet her at bedside with a nice fluffy robe and help her to the tub. From there, she could lay back and relax while you took care of her shaving (and perhaps other cleaning). This way, it would almost be an extension of her sleep. You could even get a blow up pillow for her! If she likes music...get a waterproof radio. By the time she wakes up completely, she'll already be smooth, clean and ready to start her day. What do you think?
Jason, that's a good idea and I've done it to help her relax, but the mornings are too hectic and she's always in a hurry. I was thinking of doing it on a massage table right after her shower. She could lie down and relax for a few minutes, while I shaved and lotioned her legs for her. This would probably take no more than ten minutes, but it would save her an equal number of minutes in the shower, plus relieve her of this tedious job. We already have a massage table in her spa room that I could use. Does this sound practical?
[This is directed to Ms. Lisa] Ms. Lisa, I have never met you, but I feel such a strong bond between us. through the information Mr. Lisa given us over the past few months, I feel you are helping set new directions for family relationships. I have learned a lot in how to treat Mr. Lynda. A friend told me that I had totally dominated him and turned him into a pussywhipped husband bent on pleasing his wife. At first, I was offended because Mr. Lynda is intelligent, has a mind of his own, and chose his role with complete freedom. It is true that I would have postponed our marriage had he not consented to my demands, but, he chose freely. Then, I realized that as long as I love Mr. Lynda, it is perfectly fine to dominate him, making him subordinate to me so that my career can blossom. I could have done it without you, but it has been much more fun hearing how you direct Mr. Lisa's life. And you owe it to Catherine. I demand that Mr. Lisa show you this post. LONG LIVE THE SISTERHOOD OF WOMEN IN CHARGE!!! Thank you, men who support us with your subordination. Keep writing and tell us us about your life. And Ms. Amazon Warrior Woman, please keep posting. I am sure you can make any man shake in his boots and obey you.
I just wanted to send a message to let everybody know how thrilled I am to have found a board like this! I'm a 25 y/o male that was raised in a very loving household that just happened to be matriarchal. My sister has always been my best friend, and my mother is definitely the one with the final say. I've worked for male and female employers, but prefer working for females. In my experience, women are a lot more capable of giving strong direction without being distant or impersonal. I am employed by a female now, and love my job.
I've been searching for years to find a woman that not only accepts, but is actually supportive of a male with a softer side - a male who would enjoy being a househusband to a successful and assertive woman. There is admittedly a sexual element to taking on the role of a househusband (at least for me). However, this isn't my primary motivation. I am a tender, sweet, loving guy who wants to take care of his wife and pamper her. I want to do more to support her career than what is generally expected from men. I want her to be able to thrive in her career, and know that she can come home to a clean house and a delicious warm dinner. I want her to be able to succeed in her professional life, and properly enjoy the fruits of her labor in her personal life. I adore women, and applaud all of the women on this board for chasing their dreams.
I would love to hear from women that are interested in such a man. While I'm not a pro at cooking and cleaning, I definitely want to learn. I can hold my own when it comes to dishes, laundry, and basic cleanup ... but could use some help when it comes to the scrubbing and mopping. I can make some mean desserts, but would need to read a couple cookbooks before I'd consider myself a cook. I'm college educated, and I'm good at taking direction. Are there any women in the Midwest/Michigan that find this attractive and desirable? I would love to hear from you.
I am currently working for a nonprofit organization. It is a small office, and we work closely. However, my boss is happily married to a husband who is extremely supportive of her career (though he has a career of his own). I haven't asked my sister or mother for help, but they have tried to "hook me up" with friends in the past. These relationships didn't work out for other reasons, but it was clear that they were my superior and I enjoyed that element of the relationship. Thank you for your show of support. I will continue my hunt for a woman who would enjoy a subordinate househusband.
Here are my expectations of my husband. I want him to put me first. I want him to support my career in any way I see fit so that I progress as quickly and easily as possible. I want to proclaim my leadership to the public in ways that men have always done. This includes having him take my name in marriage and have our family known as Ms. and Mr. Lynda (My Last Name). I want him to pamper me and wait on me hand and foot. We can discuss things, but, I am the final say. He accepts my decisions. I do not want to be as cold as the men I see, but I want to be the boss, I want lots of oral sex, and I want him to enjoy his role. Yes, I want slavish devotion. I want to be the envy of every woman I know. I want to start setting standards that can be copied by many more career women and their supportive househusbands. I want to be a part of a new era that has begun with women like your Lisa. I want a matriarchal clan to stand beside the old patriarchal clan with no apologies. How is that for starters?
Like I said before, you are much like Lisa. What you are achieving is setting a new standard for relationships between men and women. Matriarchy will become the standard, it will take a long time, neither you and will be here to see it, but we know that we have played a part in it by the way our households are organized and run. Women such as you are destined for success, and your husband should do everything he can to further your success. From what I have read, he will. He will pamper you, he will wait on you hand and foot, and he will put your needs and wants first. As your marriage and relationship progress all of this will become second nature, it will become your norm and women will envy you. I know I hear it all the time.
Just this past Saturday, for example, Lisa was trying on some skirts at an expensive department store. It was crowded and I was following her around as she nonchalantly handed me the items she wanted taken to the dressing room. Two younger women in their twenties observed what was happening and asked my wife how she got me to do this and where could they find someone like me. The women then had a ten-minute conversation about matriarchy and Lisa's philosophy, while I stood silently in the background holding the skirts Lisa wanted to try on. As their conversation ended, one of the women, acknowledging me for the first time, looked at me and said "so does he have any brothers?" They all laughed and Lisa and I continued shopping. It's great when we can go out in public and show people, especially young women, what a matriarchal relationship is.
My family was matriarchical in a somewhat subtle manner. My dad was the "bread winner" and my mom took my dad's last name at marriage. The matriarchy was established by who was responsible for making important decisions...who had the last word and took charge in the family. It was further established by the delegation of responsibilities by my mother. She assigned chores to the entire family (sister and father included). While the matriarchy was subtle, and there WERE some "old fashioned" elements, I think that relationships like theirs helped to pave the path for the stronger matriarchies that are being seen today. Because of the sexual elements of my interest, I've been reluctant to make my interests too explicit to my sister or mother. However, it is clear to them that I believe in a matriarchy and don't have the macho hang-ups of other men. This is also made clear through my views on the world and the way that I've treated all of my girlfriends. My father has always been very happy with his role in the family, and I'm sure that he would be supportive of my interest. I would have no problem taking my wife's last name from a personal standpoint, but it would take a huge leap of faith to go through with it. I am the last male in my family with my last name, and I'm pretty sure that my extended family would disapprove (my extended family is a lot more traditional that my immediate family). Even still, I understand the importance of this leap of faith and would not deny my wife this show of dedication if it was important to her. Again, I would keep an open mind and take the lead from my wife. Thank you for your show of support for my beliefs. I think that a world where the women were rulers and men were the subordinate spouse would be a much more peaceful and balanced world. Men have tried and failed for years now (look at the current state of affairs for plenty of examples). It's about time that women were given the chance. Bravo to you for showing your men how life SHOULD be lived! If only all men were so lucky.
I agree that the tides are changing and a world where women rule is an inevitability. It is our responsibility to nurture this idea and help make other men know that there is nothing wrong with women being in charge. In fact, it should be emphasized how much better things would be if this were the case. Perhaps a more ideal picture than the one that you painted, would be one where women didn't have to worry about vanity if that wasn't important to them. They would not be judged by their beauty, but by their intelligence, success, and character (it seems that some men have lost sight of the importance of a strong character). The men, on the other hand, would be responsible for looking good for their wife and making sure that she is happy.
The fact that you KNOW that you're not being a good househusband is a nice start. Make sure that you are honest with your wife, and remember that she knows what is best. Stay focused on keeping her happy, and you won't go wrong!
Bravo! I love to see other men like myself who adore ALL women, not just those that they are "obligated" through relationship to adore. Not all women have a male s/o, nor do they necessarily WANT one. Nevertheless, we should try to be supportive of them and help when we can. Being subordinate to an aggressive and assertive woman is a reward in and of itself. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person who recognizes this.
Please keep the responses/questions/comments/suggestions coming. You've all made my day! This site has already made it in my "Top 10" of bookmarks, and you can be assured that I'll be checking in regularly.
HH IN WAITING
Jason, What is your father like? Could you have a deep conversation with him and tell him how much he has been a positive role model for you and that you want to take any relationship one step further? How does your mother rule the family? Does she demand servitude from all of you, or is he just the "boss" at home?
I had to become a househusband. When we graduated from college, my wife got the better job offer and I followed her. I fully intended to put my degree to work, but the area did not allow for me to find a job that fit my education. I did do some odd jobs and did become a "Kelly Girl" for a short period of time. Then, I followed my wife to Denmark and only one of us could get a work permit. I remained at home and helped foster her career. When we returned to the U.S., I was used to being the supportive spouse. It has continued. My wife makes good money, and I make a good home. What may have bothered me in the beginning does not bother me now. This has proven to be a wonderful life.
(End of Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 8 – to be continued)
Saturday, September 12, 2009
The preceding post surveyed various methods of “Punishment Lite”—none requiring the wife to lay a finger on her guy. “But what,” I asked in closing, “about the wifely right to bear arms?”
In wife-led marriages, some wives emphatically do (use corporal punishment), a lot or a little, some wives don’t at all, some are averse, some squeamish, some just a wee bit curious about it. I’ll include a few quotes from across that spectrum, from both wives and husbands.
Rationale for Reluctant-to-Punish Wives
Here are a few provocative exchanges between two wives, the first curious but hesitant, the second a confirmed believer in not sparing the rod. They are excerpted (with cyber-names removed) from the original Venus on Top Yahoo forum, precursor to the She Makes The Rules message board.
First Wife: “Recently he has been getting disobedient as if he is testing me and wants me to punish him… I have wondered if spanking might be an option worth trying? I'm not sure I could hurt him though… I believe having it as a threat rather than a regular thing would be enough after having done it once. Maybe also occasionally to show him who is in charge.”
Second Wife: “The major obstacle in my mind [to using corporal punishment] wasn't a fear of hurting him so much as a reluctance to treat my husband like a child. (After all, I already have four children. I don't want to "raise" my husband. I want him to be my partner.) However, I now consider it an invaluable tool in our FLR. I now use spanking not as a means of ‘teaching’ my husband so much as I do a means of expressing my own displeasure. When he steps out of line, he knows there is a price to pay and, consequently, thinks twice about his behavior. Spanking has produced wonderful results for us over the years.”
(Several days later)
First Wife (thanking Second Wife for her advice and encouragement): “I never in my wildest dreams thought I would be doing this [spanking] but I'm OK with it if it helps our relationship. He needs this. It feels strange at the moment but I'm sure I will get used to it.”
Second Wife: “I am so delighted that you have come to terms with the idea of correcting his behaviour. I fully appreciate that punishment is not part of everyone's relationship. However, where he feels that it is needed and you are comfortable with using it in order to correct behaviour, I think it can increase the bond between you. You are telling him how important he is to you. After all, you love him, your husband, enough to use a tool he wishes you to use to make him the person you want. He wants to be a better person for you and you are helping him. When he has behaved badly, you have not simply turned away from him in disappointment, you have engaged with him to make him better.
“You are discovering the joys of having your needs/wishes/views respected and satisfied. Consider that both you and your husband have agreed that these will be respected and satisfied and you are simply helping both of you achieve what you both want.
“Yes, it can be hard work but I find using my hand and alternating with something else can ease the work. And doing it more often can ease any physical tension you feel and help you build up a steady rhythm. However you decide to punish him, make sure he fully understands what he did wrong and how you feel about his disobedience and why you want to punish him in this way.”
Punishment as Catharsis
This has already been touched on. But, as is often the case, I think Fumika Misato makes the point most succinctly:
“Spanking can be very cathartic for both parties. Men are particularly fond of enduring physical pain in their devotion to love or in the service of an important cause. For men enduring physical pain can be a powerful symbol of manhood. All the more when that pain is at the request of their love.”
This husband seems wholeheartedly in accord: “What I find very hard is the grumpy not-talking-to you punishment. I would rather corporal punishment over that anytime, especially if it came with verbalization of the issue.”
“A prompt hard spanking can help restore harmony,” another husband remarks: “Reducing her husband to a sincerely remorseful, tearful boy is cathartic for her and, I believe, tends to bring out her natural maternal instincts. By that I mean, her tendency to want to forgive and express her love. ‘Honey, I had to punish you because of your behavior, not because I don't love you. I'll always love you, but I'll always correct you for misbehavior.’
“Her nurturing side comes out and this is satisfying for her. For the husband, he has ‘paid the price’ in a very obvious way. The price that has been determined by his wife as the cost of her forgiveness. He is off the hook as far as guilt goes which, at least to me and I'm sure many others, is extremely important. He should cry tears not only of pain but of emotional release. For the spanking to be truly cathartic, I believe those tears are necessary.”
This from another husband in SMTR: “My Princess spanks me when she feels it is necessary but it is very much a last resort after everything else has failed. I know I have upset her deeply when she says I am to be spanked and I take the punishment gladly because I know I deserve it and I feel terrible for disappointing her. Neither of us enjoys it but it draws a line under my disrespectful behavior and enables me to then refocus on pleasing her and making up for my misdemeanors. Afterwards we reaffirm our love for each other and move on.”
Which draws this approving feminine response: “I like particularly the point about it drawing a line under the matter. I think it is so much better than nagging. The matter is over, done, dealt with and the parties move on. As you say, afterwards you reaffirm your love for each other. For me spanking is all about restoring the balance in a FLR. If I am offended, upset, I need something that will reconcile me to my partner. I do not want to carry around my annoyance because I believe that this could mar the relationship.”
Then, weighing in on the topic decisively, come two of the authoritative leading ladies of She Makes The Rules:
Anne In Charge: “Imagine if [your wife] just let this anger brew over several weeks without addressing it. Then, one day you do something small that bothers her and she explodes. You stand there stunned with no clue as to why. This is what happens in many vanilla marriages where the husband is clueless and the wife is frustrated. Instead your amazing wife has resolved this conflict and you'll have completely moved past it within a few days. Thank her by completing your punishment and moving forward with a deeper love and respect for her.”
QueenBee: “Punishment really DOES work. It does clear the air and releases the stress from both of you.”
As parting shots on catharsis, let’s hear from two husbands, one who gets spanked, and one who only wishes he did:
Gets Punished: “My wife punishes me when I have done a stupid thing and when the punishment is over she feels better and there the anger or grudge is over.”
Wishes He Did: “There have been times when I wished she would just spank me to get it out of her system. And there have been times when I almost said that to her.”
Punishment as Attitude Adjustment:
Confession: I’m a typical won’t ask for directions guy, often refusing even when I’m obviously lost and directly ordered to do so by my exasperated wife. I find it easier to simply drive around endlessly, hoping to blunder into the right way.
One wife, driven far beyond exasperation when her husband refused to pull over at any number of motels, finally ordered him to pull over, took the wheel and stopped at the next lighted motel. Then…
“Once in our room, I lit into him and gave him a darn good spanking, surprising him and myself. I felt that he hadn't been listening and in refusing to stop, made for an unsafe and scary drive. Since then, I have a small flogger keychain in the car's glove box, and he knows when I take it out, that I'm putting him on notice about his driving habits.”
For a similar offense (and probably not a first offense), another husband lose his driving privileges for a time.
SMTR’s Anne in Charge explains this kind of wife-imposed attitude adjustment: “Sometimes, you guys need to be taken outside of your own little self-controlled comfort zones and be made to think about things.”
And for an apparently growing cohort of in-charge wives, spanking is the quickest way to accomplish that—taking hubby outside of his self-controlled comfort zone and making him think about things. Many other wives, of course, balk at the notion of putting palm or paddle to hubby’s nether regions.
How to cure such wifely squeamishness? The advice of a female supremacist calling herself Litia is short and to the point: “’Oh my God, just spank him! The wives who say they will never do that always end up eating their words after the 14th time they're getting ready for bed and the dinner dishes aren't done. When you start to see or hear him slack off and you begin to be required to do his chores, sooner or later it will come to you that all who came before you as women of loving authority knew what they were talking about. Spare the rod and you spoil it all.”
And, yes, for a militant minority of female authoritarians, the instrument of choice for attitude adjustment is not the hairbrush or paddle, but the whip. The mere threat of this fearsome punishment is usually sufficient to correct any recalcitrant husband, for example:
“Last night, we took a long walk to the grocery store instead of driving and my wife told me that she did not like my attitude and if I did not change it right now, she would adjust it with the whip when we got home. I reevaluated my attitude right then. I KNOW she would carry through on her threat and we are not talking about a sensual whipping.”
Another word for attitude adjustment, of course, is “training.” Hence, on many female-led websites you will see links to various books about how animal training techniques can be successfully employed on husbands and boyfriends. No-nonsense titles like these:
* How to Make Your Man Behave in 21 Days or Less Using the Secrets of Professional Dog Trainers by Karen Salmansohn
* The Boyfriend Training Kit by Tanya Sassoon
* Husband-ry 101, How to Train Your Husband to Be the Spouse You've Always Wanted Him to Be by Michael H. McCann
And the sagacious Fumika Misato, goes into considerable depth of behavioral or operant conditioning of the male on her seminal website, Real Women Don’t Do Housework.
Does this sort of wife-administered Pavlovian regimen work? You darn betcha, at least according to this guy: “It is strange that, while I don't really want the corporal punishment my wife delivers, at the same time I can't think of a better feedback mechanism to improve my general behavior and performance of my duties.”
This, of course, links to the topic of weekly performance evaluations, which were covered in an earlier two-part posting, “Weekend Update.”
Punishment as Revenge (and Therapy)
Every now and again, as you explore the online resources about loving female authority in all its manifestations, you will come across another category of female-to-male punishment. These are punishments administered by women, often strong feminists, as a kind of therapeutic “revenge by proxy”—using a boyfriend or husband, who may be faultless, as a kind of whipping boy or stand-in for the entire male population for years, decades, centuries or millenia of perceived masculine or patriarchal sins, i.e., “sins of the fathers.”
Elise Sutton, while clearly condoning this kind of vicarious exercise, does suggests that it does not meet the standards of Loving Female Authority:
“Once you enter into a relationship with a man that you care for, discipline and corporal punishment will become less about taking revenge on the male gender who mistreated you and more about loving female authority… That is not to say that you still cannot express your aggressive side and take out some of life's frustrations as you dominate the man you love, but it will take on a different dynamic… You may desire that the man you love stand in proxy for other men who have mistreated you, but your love and compassion as a woman will temper your discipline as you combine strict discipline with nurturing.”
Have I exhausted the no-longer-verboten topic? Not quite. I think I have just about enough for one more posting.
End Part Two
(To be continued)
Tuesday, September 1, 2009
In “Worshipping Your Wife,” both book and blog, I have tiptoed around the theory and practice of punishment in female-led relationships. I’ve touched on it in this blog, but you can search the book in vain for the word “discipline” or “spanking” or “punishment.”
My purpose, as I’ve explained, has been to emphasize the romantic, courtship nature of female- and wife-led relationships and loving female authority.
This is the appeal that I made initially, and continue to make, to my own wife in regard to this lifestyle, ignoring any practices that might put her off. Like spanking or paddling hubby, standing him in the corner, and so forth. (I’ll fill in some of the blanks lower down.)
And yet, the “P” word won’t go away. Clearly, “Loving Female Authority” presumes a Loving Female vested with the Authority to enforce her will on her guy. Likewise, a Female- or Wife-Led relationship requires a male who follows the woman’s lead. As in any leadership structure, there must be incentives for good performance and disincentives for poor performance, for not following directives. And, in an FLR, it is she who must be empowered to administer those “disincentives,” i.e., penalties or punishments.
So, despite all previous resolutions, I am going to devote the next several postings here to an informal survey of some penalties and punishments currently employed to guide and enhance female-led coupling. FLR message boards are teeming with examples, of course, but I’m going to steer well clear of the kinkier sort, in favor of those trending more to the playful and provocative.
For example, as befits Lady Misato’s paradigm of knightly courtship, picture a brawny knight, stripped of his armor for whatever infraction or shortcoming, being toyed with by a delicate damsel, no longer distressed but perhaps doing a bit of the distressing.
I’m going to let others do most of the talking, as my own wife does not paddle or punish me physically. Indeed, it is hard to imagine her doing this (although, believe me, I’ve tried!). She explained her reluctance this way, after one of my abject failures to carry out her wishes: “You’re an adult, and I won’t punish you.” (You’ll find more about this objection to disciplining the adult male later on in this series of postings.)
But I did not get off scot-free. My wife expressed her disappointment with me very clearly at that time, and I felt it keenly, as I was meant to. She consigned me to the doghouse, just not literally (as in this delightful video from J.C. Penney’s jewelry departments). Such wifely disapproval, as any husband can attest, can be very powerful, all the more so because it just seethes and simmers for excruciating hours without boiling over.
And my wife’s full-spectrum emotions are powerful. Positive or negative, they permeate the entire household, me and the kids. I am helplessly attuned to whatever vibe she is putting out.
As the old saying goes, “When Mama ain’t happy, ain’t nobody happy!” And right here is the first good argument to be made for the “P” word, or maybe “CP”—corporal punishment within the safe and consensual framework of a female-led relationship: A paddling allows angry wife and errant hubby a convenient catharsis, an intimate and effective ritual for remorse and reorientation.
This husband, a long-standing member of the self-explanatory Disciplinary Wives Club, puts it more plainly: “We have never gone to bed mad. My wife knows that I have paid for anything I have done that displeases her or for having a generally bad attitude.”
Another husband offers a similar salute to his own wife’s strong right arm: "You must admit that her method for settling arguments, spanking, was much better than getting the cold treatment for days."
Lady Misato, creator of Real Women Don’t Do Housework, states the case with eloquent and elegant simplicity:
“One of the advantages of female-led relationships over conventional relationships, [an advantage] which promotes harmony and ends hostilities, is that they have an additional tool for solving disputes, which has to do with penance. Instead of storing up resentments and dissatisfactions, the wife is allowed to discharge them by imposing penance.”
Misato continues, addressing wives and compressing an entire essay into two sentences: “Penance provides you with a means to overcome your anger, pain, and frustration at your husband. Penance provides your husband with an opportunity to express his love and remorse by enduring the punishment you have selected.”
In the same vein, Loving Female Authoritarian Elise Sutton instructs a husband that he should be grateful to his wife for taking appropriate corrective measures: “Your wife is a wise woman. She is using her feminine power to bring peace and harmony to your marriage and she is defusing arguments.”
Such corrective measures, Misato points out, need not be restricted to physical punishment or discipline:
“Ideally, you should always have a punishment available for any given wrong. Thus there is always a means for restoring the marriage to a state of mutual respect and love. Indeed, a husband's transgressions become an opportunity to have some great fun. In practice you may find that there are some wrongs that are not so easily set right and which try your patience. “
Among the penalties Misato suggests are “extra chores, either constructive, like washing your car, or valueless, like writing sentences.”
A great many wives prefer to correct their husbands shortcomings with such alternate means—a stern look, a weekly reminder session or evaluation, a quick scolding. Others prefer schoolmarmish remedies such as assigning corner time, the writing of repetitive lines, or denial of certain privileges, such as watching sports or going out with the boys or computer time. One wife prefers to give her husband a sharp thwack on the top of his head. He knows what it means.
Exile from milady’s bed or bedchamber is another frequent chastisement, a variation of the doghouse. As this husband comments: “I find that sleeping on the floor next to her is very humbling and help keeps me in the proper frame of mind.”
And a wife adds this: “I have used it as a punishment on several occasions in the past. I allow him a 2-inch thick foam pad and a blanket. As for the kids, daddy has a sore back and sleeping on the mat helps it feel better.”
Writing lines is a very effective method, according to the oft-quoted Au876. Once, on a trip, Au was forced to stay up all night in a motel lobby writing lines after he had neglected to bring along his wife’s favorite toenail polish. I kid you not.
In the morning, after his hand-cramping all-nighter, he took her the stack of papers along with some coffee to her bedside: “She asked if I got any sleep – no. Were my hands tired --- very. Should she count the sentences --- no, I had numbered them for her. She took the stack of papers and thumbed through them. She asked if I thought I would ever forget her polish again. I haven't and I won't. She has used the same type punishment several times since. It is very effective, takes none of her time and I assure you it works.”
Washing hubby’s mouth out with soap for bad language or talking back also smacks of the schoolmistress, of course, and works. A recent example appeared on the She Makes The Rules message board, concerning a husband who used profanity in front of a neighbor. He detailed the immediate and humiliating consequences: “My wife not only washed my mouth out with a softened bar of clear soap but afterward marched over to the woman’s place, made me apologize, and offer to make amends.”
The husband complained about what he considered his wife’s unfairness – imposing a lot of extra chores—but got zero sympathy from other posters on the female-led message board: “Show your wife - and the neighbour - this post of yours,” one husband shot back. “Bet you will get another dose of discipline and it will be deserved! Be grateful for the discipline you get and don't whine.”
“Admit you made a mistake,” advised another. “Take your punishment. Tell them both how really sorry you are. And don't repeat the behavior.”
A no-nonsense wife provided the summing-up: “One of my standard lines that I am sure my husband gets sick of hearing is, ‘You wanted a wife led marriage and now you have one!’ I think that is the biggest problem - making the man see that this is now what life is. Take your punishment and be thankful it’s not worse.”
“Minor offences are handled with a loss of privileges,” another wife confides. “My husband is a huge sports fan. You name it and he watches it or plays it. If he does not do his chores on schedule or does them poorly, he is not allowed to watch TV. If it happens more than once or twice in a week, he will lose tennis or golf with his buddies. No exceptions are allowed.”
All very effective penalties, none requiring the wife to lay a finger on her guy. But what about the wifely right to bear arms? Or bare arms? I’ll delve more deeply in the next posting on this topic.
End Part One