Revisiting Vivian’s Domain, Part 3

(Continuing archival republishing of excerpts from “Vivian’s Domain,” an FLR website originally hosted on Geocities.com. In this installments “Vivian” includes letters from two grateful wives.)

Comment From Readers Who Have Tried DD:

‘Donna's Salute’

Dear Vivian,

I just had to write and tell you how much your advice has helped me and my marriage and to tell you about a wonderful way I came up with to be assured of my husband's best behavior when he is most at risk for acting disrespectfully or cranky.

First of all, Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for your advice last year and for helping me initiate Domestic Discipline with my husband. The improvement in our marriage is remarkable and I am happier than I've ever been. The wonderful change in my husband has been sustained now for over half a year and our marriage just gets sweeter every day. This is not to say that he does not fall short at times (and I have to admit that I've come to enjoy those little opportunities to correct him), but with the methods of discipline you've taught me and a little trick of my own I can always bring him back to full devotion. As you told me, he is happier than he's ever been also.

Here's the thing I wanted to tell you about, my own little creation. As we all know by now, a man is much more attentive to his wife when he's in a state of sexual arousal for her. In our written Domestic Discipline contract my husband agreed with the general principle that his sexuality rightfully belongs to me. I've also included in our contract a concrete symbol of this abstract principle.

Here's how it works. Bill (my husband) must present to me, upon my demand, an erection. We call it “Donna's Salute.” I can demand my salute at any time and if it takes him more than one minute to present one. I assume it is because he has masturbated since my last salute and he gets a severe spanking. I let at least a day go be between an authorized ejaculation and the next salute to be sure I'm being fair. I get my salute at least once a day and on some days quite a few times if necessary. It works well when he comes home from work. I demand my salute and he spends the rest of the evening doing as I ask him: setting the table, doing the dishes, spending time with the kids while I relax, etc.

The salute comes in most handy when we are with friends or family. There is a certain group of friends we've had since long before we were married and we enjoy their company often. Bill sometimes gets a little arrogant when we are with them, though, and is not always as respectful to me as he should be. I think it makes him feel like a big shot to take me for granted in front of his friends. When I start to see him acting in any way inconsiderate of me, I simply tell him I need to speak with him alone and demand my salute (this is always done in private in that I would never think of humiliating him in front of these friends). After he has given me my salute we rejoin the group and he is sweet and considerate of me again. It's like magic!

As a rule I make him go at least two weeks between orgasms so most of the time he is very able to provide the salute. When he is not able to provide my salute within a minute, it is still effective because he treats me wonderfully the rest of the day in order to mitigate the severity of the spanking he knows he is to receive in the near future.

Just thought I'd pass it on for what it might be worth to you and your readers. Thanks again for the happiness you have brought to my marriage.—Love, Donna

The Chart and the Weekly Review

Dear Vivian,

I wanted to write to tell you how much I appreciate the advice you've given me about Domestic Discipline and to let you know how the chart is working. Since I initiated DD with my husband about a year ago, our marriage has become better than it ever was (just as you said it would). Thank you for your advice and for giving me the courage to try.

One way I've found of keeping my husband on his best behavior at all times is to keep a chart of his behaviors in one of those diary type books with a lock on it. I let my husband know that I keep this chart but I never let him actually see it. He knows what I track in the chart and he knows that the chart will have a tremendous impact on him at his weekly review, but he has never seen it. The chart allows me to stop him in his tracks with just a look when he starts acting up or looks like he is about to neglect either me or something around the house that he is supposed to do. My look says, I'll make a note of this in the chart. That is often enough to turn his behavior around or even his attitude if he is about to lose his temper.

Sunday after church is our weekly review time. We drop the kids at their grandparents and have a couple hours of quality time to ourselves. It is a wonderfully relaxing time for me as Nick (my husband) carefully prepares brunch for me. He either serves me at table while I read the paper or on a TV tray if I want to watch TV. After brunch Nick cleans up and does the dishes while I relax and digest. Then I have him rub my feet or do my nails (I made him take a course in manicure so he could provide me this service at no expense to our family budget).

Finally I tell him to go upstairs and get my chart book and my hairbrush. He knows where the book is kept, but does not have access to the key. I keep the key with me at all times along with the key to his chastity belt when it is in use. When he has handed me the brush and the book, I tell him to remove his clothes and stand in the corner facing the wall. He is to keep absolute silence while I review his chart.

Actually, there is very little documentation in this book. I keep track of his last ejaculation and whether or not it was an authorized one and of his last spanking and how many swats I gave him. Any egregious offenses go in there such as losses of temper, disrespectful behavior or attitude toward me, drinking to intoxication, direct disobedience of a command, or failure to take care of his most basic household duties. The following is a list of all the things he thinks are documented in the chart:

Length of time since his last ejaculation

All of the household chores he has done during the week
All services he has provided me during the week—foot rubs, back massages, errands, dinners, etc.
All gifts and tokens of his love he has given me that week—flowers, cards, etc.
A daily breakdown of how pleasant or unpleasant he was around the house for each of the past six days
The number and quality of the orgasms he has given me over the past week
And any prohibited activities he h as engaged in over the past week

He doesn't know that only the first and last items along with date and severity of his last spanking are in the chart. As he stands facing the corner I unlock and open the book. I make knowing "hmmm" and "uhuh" noises as I thumb through the pages so he thinks I'm reviewing all the above data. My decisions about when I will authorize his next ejaculation and his punishment are based on a combination of the little data I do keep track of, my general principles, and the mood I'm in at the time.

He does know that my mood plays a role. That is why he's so attentive to making a nice brunch and assuring that the hour or so before the review is as pleasant as possible for me. That is why he is exceptionally sweet to me on Saturday nights. He knows that my feelings toward him are much more tender after he's given me a good orgasm or two.

(End of Part 3. Part 4 begins with one of the most insightful FLR writings I hav eever seen, Vivian’s “Toward A Fantastic Marriage.”)

Revisiting Vivian’s Domain, Part 2

(Continuing my archival republishing of sections of “Vivian’s Domain,” an FLR website originally hosted on Geocities.com, but no longer retrievable even on the Wayback Machine. Contrary to the expectations of several blog commenters, in this and subsequent installments “Vivian” does not continue the story of how she took control of her marriage and her husband. But she does offer well-seasoned advice to wives wondering how to get started on their own wife-led marriages, or even if they dare do so. — Mark Remond)

(From “Vivian’s Domain” / “Better Spouses Website”)

How Will I Know?
This is a common question from women I've talked with who are interested in Domestic Discipline but whose husbands have not outright asked them to try it. How do I know he wants or needs this? On its face it seems a legitimate question. To those of us who've been around a bit, it’s a no brainer. Of course he does! If he's like most men he won't come right out and tell you (too much ego), but that doesn't mean he doesn't know it's best for him.

This site is designed for women. That's why it is so wordy and detailed. If it were for men it would only need one page with a picture of me pointing my finger and saying, "You know you need to be punished for your bad behavior, don't you?"
He would simply gulp, catch his breath and say, "Yes ma'am." I would instruct him to tell his wife of that need. He would want to tell his wife but he'd be afraid to do so. He'd be afraid she wouldn't understand. He would assume his wife would think the idea of Domestic Discipline too weird. His fear would be justified. That's why I created this site.

I'll let you in on a little secret. If you are reading this, there is about a 90% chance it is because your husband (on some level) wants you to. I know this because of the ways I've "marketed" this site. If you are among the 30% who have come across this site on you own, there is still about a 70% chance your husband secretly desires Domestic Discipline.

Here are some ways for you to know without risking any embarrassment for yourself.

1. Think about it. Has he ever offered you a clue that he has a streak of sexual submissiveness in him? Does he like to be teased? Does he enjoy sex more with you on top in the dominant position? Has he ever admitted to you that he lacks self-discipline and needs external discipline? Chances are you'll find your answer in your own memories.

2. Laughingly show him this site or one of my recommended links such as The Disciplinary Wives Club or Mistress Lori's Chastity Site. Make a joke of it and say something like "Wouldn't it be great if something like that worked on you?" Observe his response. Unless he comes right out and says something like, "No way, don't even think of trying that with me," he's interested. He'll probably blush (if he's prone to doing that) or drop his eyes and he'll probably hint at his interest with a joking response. If he does that, say something like, "maybe this is the kind of thing you need." By maintaining a bit of humor in your voice you protect yourself from any risk in case he is really not interested in this. Chances are he'll say something along the lines of, "Maybe it is." A response like is really equal to,"Yes, Yes, Yes, PLEASE." Keep that in mind. If you get a "maybe" you should seize the moment and say something like, "Well, that is exactly what we're going to do then." The thing to remember about the conversation as sketched above is that you have risked nothing. You haven't revealed any so-called kinkiness but he has. You remain in control.

3. Just do it! Start by either talking to him about his behaviors or coming to an agreement that he will be punished if they continue or by simply doing what I did. You'll find that in My Story. Most of the Dominant Wives I've spoken with believe it is safer to discuss things first, but it worked well for me. The thing about "just doing it" is that it may work in a situation where the husband is not aware of and has not even thought about his need for discipline and submission. "Just doing it" touches him in his subconscious before his intellect has time to react.

Getting Started
I hope the information on this site is enough to get you started with this new and wonderful aspect of your marital relationship. I promised this page on getting started, but I honestly don't have much more to say on the subject that isn't already covered in the site. But I will try to offer something helpful here.

1. If your husband has already told you he is interested in trying Domestic Discipline.

In this case your next step is easy. Take him up on it! You'll want to begin by sitting down with him to lay out the rules. The rules may be as simple or as complicated as you like but they must include these two primary ingredients.

A) He must promise to comply with your discipline. This does not mean he has to be perfect. Just that when you order him over your knee, he takes his place there regardless of the mood he's in at the time. That is all you really need to start. Your other punishments and discipline will flow from there. He will comply with them knowing if he does not, a hard (or harder) spanking will follow.

B) He must promise to give you control over his sexual release and to never lie to you about masturbating. If you choose to use a chastity device, he must agree to wear it at your discretion.

That's it for the basics. Once those basics are established the rest is up to you and your imagination. It's a good idea, as I've mentioned, to agree upon a trial period. I believe the trial period should be at least three months in order to evaluate the effectiveness of the program. It is also good to agree upon a "safe phrase" your husband can use in case things go way too far for him. He needs to know that his use of the safe phrase ends the Domestic Discipline part of your relationship for a certain period of time so that things can be properly evaluated.

I also recommend a three-month interval between his use of the "safe phrase" and the recommencement of DD.

I recommend this lengthy period because you want your husband to be able to stop things if something is completely unbearable, but you don't want him using the safe phrase when discipline is simply extremely uncomfortable for him. That would give him too much power in the relationship. The whole point of this is that real power is exchanged in DD. He gives it up and you take it.

2. If your husband has not told you outright that he is interested in trying Domestic Discipline

In this case read the "How will I know" section of this site. Let me repeat that if you are reading this it is most likely that your husband wants and needs Domestic Discipline. You may or may not have a difficult time believing that, but my experience has taught me that most men yearn for and fantasize about DD. Most men do not think their wives would ever dream of taking on the role of disciplinarian and, therefore, do not ask. Simply show him this site or another that deals with the subject and jokingly let him know that you think it would be great to have him serving you for a change.

It is a good idea to probe for his willingness to try DD in a playful or humorous way. As I've said before, DD is part game and that is the part that will attract your husband.

After you have introduced the idea in a playful manner, be attentive to his response. Even if he initially seems to reject the idea, wait. He'll likely try to get you to bring up the idea again after he's had time to think about it. Most likely he'll make some safe, joking response like. “Yea, I bet you'd love that,” or even more to the point like, “Maybe that is something I need.” If he gives you any sign, even a slight hesitation, you can be sure he wants DD badly but is too ashamed to tell you. When you hear him say anything that hints at interest, suggest that you try if for a while to see how it goes. I can almost guarantee he'll agree.

Another way is to approach the matter like I did (see “My Story”[Mark Remond: In Part 1 of this multi-part post]). This is good if you are angry with him or if he has done something that merits punishment and he knows he is guilty. If he feels guilty about something, allow that guilt to sink in and after a while he will approach you to “make up.” That is when you can begin scolding him and letting him know that something must be done about his behavior. In a guilty state of mind he will accept your punishment (a hard spanking) and the rules you impose after the punishment. He will also adore you more than ever for the power you have shown him.

(In Part 3 Vivian’s responds to questions and comments from wives following her advice, and offers a provocative essay on why and how wife-led marriages work so well, “Toward A Fantastic Marriage.”)

Revisiting Vivian’s Domain, Part 1

Like my "Spousechat Archive" series, this is an attempt to salvage some valuable FLR writings that have vanished from Cyberspace. In fact, “Vivian’s Domain,” a website originally hosted on Geocities.com, is not, alas, even retrievable by the wonderful Wayback Machine.

Did “Vivian’s Domain” simply vanish when Geocities itself went away sometime in 2009? If any of my readers know, please post a comment. And if the pseudonymous “Vivian” herself responds, I would be delighted—and, of course, I will remove this “homage” reprinting upon her request.

In the meantime, I am offering excerpts of the text file that I had downloaded from her “Domain” years ago. “Vivian” addressed herself to wives, especially those seeking to recapture the romance in their marriage. (Her site was also called “Better Spouses Website.”)

Her prescriptions for accomplishing this transformation will sound familiar to readers of this blog, or of Lady Misato or Around Her Finger or Elise Sutton. But I think her voice is uniquely persuasive for the quality of her perceptions and the emotional honesty of her approach.

(From “Vivian’s Domain” / “Better Spouses Website”)

My Story

Studies have shown that men think about sex hundreds of times per day (many times more than the average woman). When I first heard about these studies I had a hard time believing them. I wondered how my husband could be thinking about sex these hundreds of times a day but only showing a sexual interest in me once or twice a month. Then I read another study that said the average man ejaculates anywhere from a few times a week to once a day or more. In the beginning of our marriage, I remembered, my husband was one of those geared toward the daily end of that spectrum. I wondered how his biology could have changed so drastically in the last seven years.

My husband seemed to barely notice me at times. I realized that while he was at the center of my thoughts, I was barely on the periphery of his. I became angry at this thought, then I became curious. The first thing I had to rule out was an affair. I help out at my husband's office, which is only a couple blocks from our house, so it was easy for me to verify that he was at the office on those nights he said he was working late. Then I started poking around looking for clues to an affair. What I found in his office startled me. PORNOGRAPHY!

Most of it was the usual—beautiful naked women with firm breasts and jutting butts. I hated looking at them. I had borne two of his children and although I considered myself moderately attractive I was no match for the toyish women he was obviously fantasizing about and comparing me to. It almost made me hate him. To think that there I was devoting my whole life to our marriage and our family and he, somehow, preferred these little candy girls who did nothing but look good. I'd have to work out 2 or more hours a day to even begin to compete with their looks. And why should I even have to think about competing with them? I was rearing his children, keeping his house, and cooking his meals. Meanwhile, he was wasting all his sexual energy on shiny photographs of women who did nothing but bare their asses to him on the pages of sleazy magazines.


I'd had preconceived notions about the kinds of men who bought those kinds of magazines. My husband didn't seem to fit. He was well respected in the community, intelligent, athletic, hard-working and protective of his family. He seemed to have high moral standards and was, at one time, very active in our church. He was the kind of man a woman is proud to be married to. Although I lived with him and experienced the wicked temper, laziness and neglect he sometimes displayed around the house, my image of him had never included what I imagined as I flipped through the pages of those magazines.

I was seized with despair until I got to the bottom of the pile. There I saw two magazines that were different from the others. They featured dominant women (dominatrices) and submissive men in pictures and stories. Some of the women pictured were tall, beautiful, Amazon types like Xena, the Warrior Princess, but some were not that attractive at all, some not as attractive as I am. Many of the stories and pictures depicted the men serving these women in ways I wouldn't mind being served—cooking, cleaning, giving massages—and being punished if their services did not meet the expectations of these implacable women. I could live with that!

I wasn't sure what to do about the situation. Part of me was angry and wanted to confront my husband and make him explain himself. Part of me wanted to forget that I'd found them. I was too embarrassed to confide in anyone about this. I put the magazines back and spent the next few weeks trying to figure out what to do.

Thank goodness for the Internet. I started my research there. It was anonymous and full of information. I found that my situation was not that unusual and that my husband's behavior was not that unusual either. On the Links page you will find some of the sites I found helpful. In the next paragraphs you will find how I solved this problem and made my husband a better spouse.


My Solution

The things I learned surprised me. As I formulated my plan I often doubted myself. I thought it would never work on my husband. He's too macho, too strong, too independent. Then I'd remember those magazines and everything I'd learned in my research. I remembered my anger at the way he had treated me, taken me for granted, and cheated me out of his affection. I was ready.

One Saturday evening, as he was sitting on the couch waiting for me to make his dinner, I drove the kids to my sister's and dropped by his office to pick-up those magazines. During dinner I told him I had something important to discuss that required his undivided attention. I told him to meet me in the bedroom when he finished dinner. He asked what it was and I told him we'd discuss it upstairs. I used a rather stern voice and was delighted to see the nervousness on his face. He neither protested nor argued.

Once upstairs, I told him to sit on the bed. I stood. I wanted to look down at him. I looked him in the eyes and said, "I think you have a problem that is affecting our marriage and we're not leaving this room until we do something about it. He started to say something. I raised my hand to cut him off. "Do you know how often the average man ejaculates?"

It was just a split second but I saw him lower his eyes and blush. Then he pulled himself into an indignant posture and said, "What in hell are your talking about?" I raised my hand again to stop him and walked over to the other side of the bed where I had put the magazines. I dropped them on the bed next to him.


"Explain these to me." I demanded. "And don't even think about lying." He was speechless. For a moment I almost pitied him. I almost relented. Then I decided to let myself enjoy his discomfiture. I bent down and pointed my index finger directly in his face. "Well, what do you have to say?" Again nothing. I stared down at him for another long moment and said, "Okay, I'll give you an easier question. How often to you masturbate?"

He looked up at me and tried to say something. He couldn't. His mouth dropped open and his face was beet red. He was breathless. It reminded me of an evening when we were first dating. I had bought a new evening gown that, I must admit, I looked stunning in. When he had come to pick me up and saw me standing there in that evening gown he was breathless and speechless and his mouth had dropped open that same way. It was a look of awe and helplessness I hadn't seen since then. And now, nine years and two kids later, there it was again. I felt a power I hadn't felt in years. It was strangely exciting.

I decided to go a little softer on him to help him talk. I sat down on the bed next to him, took his chin in my hand and gently told him it was okay to tell me; that I needed to know in order to improve our marriage. He took a deep breath. "Maybe once a month or so," he whispered. I lifted his chin and looked directly in his eyes.
"Tell me the truth." It took a while, but he finally got his number to a couple of times a week. I still wasn't sure I could believe that, but it was a number I could accept for the time being. I told him I could no longer tolerate this from him. I told him God had ordained this marriage as the legitimate outlet for his sexual energy and his habit of masturbating was in violation of that sacred bond. Then I delivered the line I knew would inspire his total submission to me on this issue. "What would people think if they knew about this?"

"You wouldn't tell anyone." He begged.


I stood up and put my hands on my hips. "Well something needs to be done about this." I paused. "Don't you agree?" He only nodded.

This was the moment of truth, I thought. I had come this far and everything had gone pretty much as planned, even better actually. I pulled his chin up toward my face again. "You need to be disciplined, don't you?"

There was that helpless, open mouth again. It sent a shiver down my spine and into my groin. I told him to stand up and I went to my bureau to retrieve the wooden hairbrush I had recently purchased for this very purpose. I sat back down on the bed and told him to stand next to me. "Take down your pants." He hesitated. "NOW!" I demanded. He undid his belt and let his pants fall to the floor. "Underwear too." I told him.

The whole thing felt strangely inevitable, to both of us I think. He didn't protest. He didn't tell me I was being ridiculous. He simply lowered his underwear and blushed a deeper red.

"What is happening here?" I asked him. He was erect.

"I didn't mean for that to happen," he stammered.


"It won't be like that for long," I assured him. Then I patted my lap with the hairbrush. He tried to look confused. My confidence began to wane. Then I looked at him standing there looking so silly with his pants around his ankles and simply tapped my lap with more authority. He took his position over my lap without a word.

My first few smacks were tentative and didn't elicit a sound from him. I took a few harder strokes. He whined and I could feel his erection dwindling away. There was nothing pleasant in this for him now.

I let myself think about the way he had virtually ignored me over the past couple of years; ignored me while stroking himself regularly with those pictures. I let him have it! Four dozen more hard strokes. His butt was a brilliant red all over and welts were taking shape. He squirmed ineffectually and begged me to stop. It was cathartic for me. All the anger I had stored up was coming out.

Finally, he started crying. I stopped and told him he could get up now. His erection was long gone and his eyes were watery and red. Almost as soon as he stood up he knelt down and hugged my legs. He knelt there, apologizing profusely, as I ran my fingers through his hair.

With my anger abated, I loved him at that moment in a stronger way than I had in years. All the frustration, anger and doubt I had felt toward him were washed away and no longer stood between me and my love for him. I felt an urge to pull his face into my groin and make him please me with his tongue (he hadn't done that for me in years). I restrained myself. That would come later.


I told him to get up and stand facing a corner of the room and think about what he has done and what has just happened here. He did so without a sound. He tried to cool his buttocks with his hands. "No," I told him, “keep your hands at your sides.” He really did look cute standing there with his butt bright red, obeying me without protest. "Now don't you move," I said. "I'll be back shortly."

I went downstairs and made myself a cup of tea. When I returned I found him exactly as I'd left him. I sat in our wing-backed chair and took a few sips of my tea. He stood silently. I put the cup on the nightstand.

"Come here Patrick," I ordered. He walked over and stood in front of me. His hands were covering his genitals.

"Can I put my clothes back on?" he asked.

"No honey." I answered. "We need to talk about the rules first. Get your hands away from your crotch." He gulped and, of course, obeyed.


The Rules

The significance of this evening did not fully dawn on me until that moment. The power dynamics in our relationship had taken a sharp and sudden turn. Like many women, I had lived in fear of losing my marriage. Consequently, I had put much more energy into the marriage than he did. There was an injustice about it I had come to resent, but accepted as my reality, something I couldn't do anything to change. During the weeks before this watershed night I began to think that maybe I could change things. I was mentally prepared to lay down the law and had my list of rules written down. The power I felt as he stood naked before me waiting for his "new rules" made me emotionally ready as well.

I cupped his scrotum and penis in my hands and told him, "This does not belong to you alone, Patrick. I don't know why you didn't understand this before, but when you made your wedding vows you promised to be faithful to me. That means your sex belongs to me and this marriage. Do you understand that now?" He nodded silently. "Tell me you understand," I commanded.

"I understand," he said through a dry throat. His penis was stiffening again so I knew I had his undivided attention.

"Okay, here are the new rules:

1. You are not to ejaculate without my knowledge and permission. Do you understand?"
"Yes."

"2. You are not to lie to me or in any way try to deceive me. Do you understand?"
"Yes."

"3. I am going to keep these little magazines of yours hidden away just in case you ever need a reminder, but you are never to look at pornography again. Do you understand?"

"Yes."


"4. You are going to be a better husband than you have been. You are going to pay more attention to my needs and the kids. Do you understand?"

"Yes."

"5. I will be the judge of your performance as a husband. It will be your highest priority to win my approval of your performance. Do you understand?"

"Yes."

"6. You will do your share of work around this house and you will do it without complaining or being nagged. Do you understand?"

"Yes."

"7. When you meet my expectations, you will be rewarded, when you do not, you will be disciplined. You will accept that discipline without rebellion. Do you understand?"

"Yes."

"Okay," I told him, "those are the general rules.” I couldn't help myself at that point and gave him a kiss. "We'll talk about the details later." I told him to pleasure me with his mouth. I told him his goal would be to keep me on the edge of orgasm for half an hour before making me cum.


It was the sweetest he's been to me in years. Since there was no way for him to see the clock with his face buried, he took me way beyond the half hour. When I was satisfied I let him up. I stroked his genitals softly. "That was good Patrick," I told him, "but you will not have an orgasm tonight. In fact," I said as I gently touched him, "it might be a while before I think you've earned one."

He just moaned. When I stopped touching him he kissed and hugged and cuddled with me like he hadn't in years. I told him we had some details to work out before we went to sleep. I showed him the chart I had made for him and explained its system of merit and demerit points. He made no protest. I went to sleep as he caressed and massaged my back. It was a wonderful sleep. I finally had my marriage back.



(To be continued… with more of "Vivian's" insights on “Domestic Discipline.”)