Wednesday, June 10, 2009
Spouseclub Archive Excerpt No. 1
Editor’s Note: Several readers have asked me to provide more excerpts from the old “Spousechat” message board. Good idea. So I am here launching what will be a series of samplings from www.spousechat.com, a defunct message board active between 2001 and 2003.
Spouseclub and Spousechat were created by Bill Higgins, a real estate entrepreneur who became a househusband after marrying the CEO of a much larger real estate firm (Barbara Corcoran of the Corcoran Group in New York City). Higgins’ original message board was intended as a networking site for other men wed to high-powered executives. Within a few months, however, the site seems to have been populated mainly by passionate advocates for “matriarchal marriages” (i.e., what are now commonly called wife-led marriages and female-led relationships), with husbands playing enthusiastically supportive roles.
The Spousechat message board was deactivated suddenly in 2003, without explanation. The archives continued to be viewable for several years more before being taken down. They are no longer available, even through the Internet Archive (http://web.archive.org). The excerpts I saved, and which I will post here from time to time, lack header information, such as date stamp and subject line, and may not always be in original sequence. I have done minor editing and proofing, leaving some misspellings, but occasionally deleting or paraphrasing X-rated words or sections. — Mark Remond
Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 1
In the NY Times, May 2, 1999, there was an article about the restaurateur, author, and tv host B. Smith and her husband Dan Gasby who works for her. The article contained this quote about Mr. Gasby: “At cocktail parties, he introduces himself as Mr. Smith.” I was impressed by the thought of a man so openly and willingly acknowledging his subordinate and supportive status in the relationship, and also his pride in his wife's status and standing. As you know there is a small but increasing number of men who legally take their wives’ name when they marry, which I hope will become a topic of discussion in this group. It seems to me that a man taking his wife's last name is the ultimate expression of spousehood.
I met an architect who left his firm to keep house and do occasional free-lance work. He told me his wife, a banking executive, was earning twice his salary. I think he also said the home title and bank account was in her name only. An associate of mine was surprised to learn that women now make up a majority of law-school students. Another has told me that women are taking over the accounting profession. Most real-estate agents I have met are women. And yet, it also seems like more men are occupying lower-earning jobs like bank tellers, for example, while more of the VPs are women.
I think one could make some sound arguments that women should run the businesses and men should keep house. I won't here recount the number of magazine articles that identify feminine characteristics that fit a new paradigm of segmented corporations, partnering for business, and sensitivity to social/global concerns. Also, I think people generally know that most new businesses are started by women. Housework, on the other hand, is physical work. Men should be a good fit here because they are typically more robust and muscular than women. Mopping floors, replacing the roof, hanging laundry, hanging doors, landscaping the yard -- these tasks can be properly dispatched with masculine muscle. Overall, perhaps men should embrace the idea of women in control economically and socially. As an engineer, I understand that it is nearly impossible to stop a wave from hitting the beach.
I have just read an entry regarding using the wife's last name. In most states, this is legal. It is also very proper. As society becomes more matriarchal, the man will show respect for his wife, and acknowledge her as more than an equal partner. It will also encourage women in leadership roles. They will not lose their identity, and men will acknowledge the power in their relationship.
Today a man who takes his wife's name can do so with pride and respect for his wife's status and accomplishments. As stated, a man who takes his wife's name is not only acknowledging his wife's status in the relationship, but is also showing respect and honoring all women by his public statement that women are not inferior beings that men should be ashamed to be subordinate to. Instead a man pays tribute to women’s hard-fought and well deserved current status, when he says he is honored to be known by his wife's last name. I find the large number of men taking their wives’ names today to be a very encouraging sign of the acceptance of the coming more matriarchal society.
As the world becomes more open to things, some families will be matriarchal. My wife has a lot of power in our relationship, and, In taking her last name, I acknowledged her leadership. I hope more men will consider taking their wife's last name as their own. This is most important when a wife has an important career. Why should she give up her identity? Let her celebrate her accomplishments. By taking her name, I can celebrate them also. I will admit there are times when I question myself, bu, everyone does. My wife and I are very happy. I am no wimp, but, she is in charge.
At the age of 28, I got married last year to a woman who is 5 years older than I am and, as the IT Manager she earns twice more than I do. I know nothing about matriarchisism, but it was an obvious choice that I should be the one who will gladly take her name as my own. After I have legally changed my previous name and put her maiden name in all my documents, we both think that we did a good thing and she is very proud of me. We haven't heard any negative comment neither from our friends nor from the family.
My fiance and will be married in 4 months. She proposed to me. She is a very high powered partner in a large law firm. I have a Liberal arts degree. Needless to say she does and always will make more money than I will ever do. We discussed what our roles will be once we get married and we both decided that it would be natural that I stay at home and do whatever I can to support her career. I have read about this sort of arrangement but never thought too much about it till now that it is happening to me. I realise that I am very proud of her and her accomplishments and I would do anything to make sure that her needs are taken care of and that our lives run smoothly. Running the household and making sure that all the little everyday things are taken care of. I will definitely be taking over the traditional women's role and I can't wait. Actually I have already started - She does not have any time to plan the wedding so I am doing it all which is fine. I read in a post here about the husband taking the wifes name. now that I think about it it would be silly for her to change to my name - what for? her name is a whole lot more relevant. i will discuss it with her. I would be proud to have her name.
The wedding would be a perfect place for you to announce that you are going to "love, honor, and obey" your wife and to take your wife's name. What a present you are giving to your wonderful wife. And let your wife take the dominant role in bed and sex. She will love your complete devotion and submission.
UPDATE: MICHAEL BRADSHAW
Hi everyone, I thought that all of you would like to get an update on how my wife-to-be and I are doing with our role-reversed union. We have now moved in together as the wedding is coming up fast. This gives us more of a chance of getting adjusted to our new roles. I had a hard time giving up my apartment but hers is a palace compared to my old one so I guess I will adjust :) I don't get to spend time with her as much as I would like to which is hard for me. She is always busy with work. I have had a lot of fun fixing up our new place and am thinking of getting some new furniture. She told me that I can do whatever I want with the house as long as it looks good and is comfortable so I am been having fun picking out some new colors. We have discussed at great length about our roles and we are both very comfortable with it. This is new for both of us, and I think it will be hardest for me adjusting to being taken care of and being dependent on her completely not only financially but emotionally as well.
Being a man who is taking on a traditional women's role means that I don't have many role models to learn from. But I am trying hard to learn to be a better "wife". Redbook is a Godsend! :) I am learning a lot just by watching how women have supported men and I emulate that.
We also talked about the name issue. She thought it would be an ok idea. She was going to keep her name regardless anyway so it’s up to me if I want to take her name. I feel that taking her name is a clear indication of our new roles and is a way that I can express to her and the world that she is the head of our household. I think that I will eventually but am not sure how to do it legally. If I do I would be Mr (her first name) (her last name).
Being the homemaker is hard, not only due to the tedious routine of keeping house, but also planning meals, shopping and basically being there for her and supporting her completely. On top of all this I am also planning the wedding – that’s hard because it’s a whole different world for me.
A week ago, I had a unique experience of entertaining at home for five of her co-workers, 4 of whom were women. I made dinner and served and cleaned up after while my fiance and her friends went to the living room to talk about work and business. It was a great success and my fiance was very proud of me. The women were all very nice to me and complimented me on the meal and the house. It was my first experience being the corporate spouse and I pulled it off well.
One thing I am grateful for is her. She is a pillar of strength and is decisive and firm. She knows exactly how she wants something done and will make sure it’s done well. I don't do anything without consulting her first, especially with money. Being the submissive partner is so different but also very nice. Sometimes it’s difficult but I like it. Having somebody to lean on and having a strong person lead you is very comforting. And if that someone is a woman, it is a wonderful experience. Eventually, I feel that more men will realise what a better life it is to have a woman be in charge of your life.
Matriarchy does not have to be a "power" trip in male terms. It is recognition of the female as head of the family, as head of that household, and the person on whom all final decisions rest. There is no hatred for males in such a relationship. The males may be submissive, but it does not have to be a sadistic treatment for "lowly males." It is also a focus on females in the family. It is the opportunity to give female children priority over her brothers. It may also represent the teaching of domestic skills to the boy children so that they can face the new society. I do believe matriarchy is best addressed when the man takes his wife's name in marriage. I even further the cause of the man becoming Mr. (Her first name) (Her last name.) In this way, they can tell society that they are a female centered household. It is the time of women now. So many of us in this forum have said as much. Long Live The Matriarchy!
Matriarchal marriage is best addressed when the man takes his wife's name in marriage. Take your wife's name and become Mr. (her first name) (her last name). In this way, you can tell society that your family is a female centered household. Taking your wife's name is a clear indication that you can express to her and the world that she is the head of your household. If she is the head of your household, should you not be proud to announce it? Why should she give up her identity? Let her celebrate her accomplishments. Today a man who takes his wife's name can do so with pride and respect for his wife's status and accomplishments. The large number of men taking their wives names today is a very encouraging sign of the acceptance of the coming more matriarchal society.
Do you have any idea what matriarchy means? It is not allowing her to be head of the household; SHE IS THE HEAD OF THE HOUSEHOLD. You better be able to listen when she speaks. You may find you have a lot of free time on your hands if you are at all adept at cleaning the house. This will give you even more time to support her career. Just want you to know what you are getting yourself into as a life. It can be very rewarding. However, you cannot be lazy. AND, when she takes over as Head of the Household, expect that she will take over in many other areas as well. At least, that is what happened to me.
Women are taking control of our society and taking lead everywhere. It seems that after 30 years males will be mostly househusbands or secretaries and almost all executives will be female except a token male executive. Soon, your wife will take you to dinner parties where women adjourn to the parlor to talk business while their househusbands retire to the kitchen to help clean up, take care of babies and discuss family life. It is the time of women now. There is no doubt that this century belongs to women. Celebrate the coming matriarchy with your wife.
Once you have found that matriarchal woman, you will be in a heaven you never could have dreamed. It is not bad work being the nurturer in the relationship. You must remember one thing however; a matriarchal vision is not a patriarchal vision in reverse. It is something new and something very needed. Listen and take direction well. That is the way people will see that this works. Be careful. As you can see from this site, there are many men who are afraid of their own shadow, and of the power of women. What they do not realize is that women's power is expressed quite differently than that of a man. It is a kinder, all inclusive kind of power. You are always a part of that power. Just learn how to successfully let her be the leader.
I am truly happy and completely in love with this strong, amazing woman who will be my life-long partner soon. Unfortunately, the wedding has been pushed back cause of her new job commitments. This was a tough decision to make for her but she decided that it would be best. She is travelling quite a bit now and her schedule is terrible. Its also so hard for me sitting around the house waiting for her to come home. But I now have some more time to plan the wedding :)
I showed her the posts on this site and she started thinking more about different wedding rites. She suggested that since we are going to be swapping traditional husband & wife roles in our lives, she thinks that we should show that during the wedding ceremony by swapping our roles there. She suggested that instead of her coming down the aisle to me, I should walk down the aisle to her. We would be swapping our roles in a normal wedding ceremony. She would stand at the front with her brides maid, dressed in a dark suit, while I would walk down the aisle dressed in a white suit, following the wedding procession. She wants me to ask my dad to give me away. I don't think that my dad will do it but my mum might. Is this going too far? I don't mind it - it would be very new and it would be very symbolic of our lives ahead. She thinks it would be a great way of showing my submission to her as the head of our family. I do want her to be in charge of my life and I will be taking her name and I love her so much. There is no doubt in my mind that I will always completely submit to her. Have you ever heard of something like this before where the man takes the brides place in the wedding?
Everything else is going smoothly. I am so comfortable in my role as the nurturer and home maker now. I do things almost automatically, like getting up early and making sure coffee is ready when she comes down, to kissing her goodbye when she goes of to work or doing a final check around the house before she comes home to make sure that everything is tidy and in its place. She expects dinner to be ready when she gets home so planning our meals is really hard sometimes but I am learning.
FRANCES (WIFE OF LARS)
My husband is as much a man as anyone. He chose to take my name in marriage because I had the career, his name was impossible to pronounce, and, we chose a life where he is subordinate to me. He shows a lot of strength as a househusband and stay at home dad. He had the example of many of his European friends. IT IS HAPPENING. As women get more power, they may head their families; there is no shame in admitting who the head of the house is. By the way, I do not beat or whip my husband. He freely chose his role; his submission to me is an honor he feels I deserve. It seems that this forum is a place to discuss these things. Why are so many men scared of powerful women? I do not know so many that are doing what we are doing, but the ones I know have men who are very manly and giving.
Michael, what you are doing is great and is something that all men should be encouraged to do. My boyfriend completely supports me and my career as well. We have been dating over a year now and I have always taken the lead in what we do and where we go. I am more aggressive than he is and leading is natural for me. I pay for our dates – it’s funny when we go out and the waiter always brings him the check first - hopefully one day, waiters will bring the woman the check first. I'd like to hear from more women - do you have boyfriends/husbands who are submitting to you?
BARBARA AND TOM
I am Barbara, and, I have always had a much larger salary than Tom. I work in a research lab, and he was a science teacher at a middle school. When we had our first child, I decided he should stay home. I have paid all the bills for over seven years. When we go out, we do not play games; I am the breadwinner and I pay for the dates. Tom likes the idea of being a "kept man," and he has continued to develop his submissive nature that was very evident in college. He is so handsome that he is my "trophy" husband.
Tom writes: I am the male of this couple. Everything she has said is true. She was always so bossy and demanding that I knew what life with her would be like, and I accepted my role in the relationship. I am strong enough in my masculine abilities that I do not care that I am Mr. Barbara. It is great knowing that there are others. It is not so bad having the woman in charge; we even have a more creative sex life than most men I talk to. Some are even envious of my position.
Role reversals should work just as easily as any relationship. I hope women get used to taking the lead, and men taking the nurturing and subordinate role. It may happen naturally; we males better be ready. I thank Barbara for being the boss; I could not have done the job she has done. We are a well adjusted family because of her leadership and drive.
This is wonderful. I am the breadwinner and head of my household that includes a husband and three children. I would not have my life any other way, except that I wish I could be home more often. My job demands that I travel all the time. However, the children are in good hands with my househusband. He is very creative. My career is where it is now because of the support he has given me.
Yes, I love submissive men. They make life worth living. I think there are more out there than we think, and, I hope there are more women ready to take over the leadership role in the family and community.
My advice to Michael is to keep doing what you are doing. I am sure your future wife will appreciate the care and concern you give her and her career. If you are the submissive one in the relationship, so be it. There are worse things than being bossed around by your wife. At least, you admit it. There are many men in this country who are controlled by their wives; they just do not want to admit it. Create some new traditions for your wedding. It will make your celebration special, and give you lots of memories in the years to come. Best wishes.
Michael - go for it - have a great wedding. You go boy! All us women support you! Role reversed weddings might soon be the norm as more and more women take the lead.
This is a woman's view, but, I think you are great. My boyfriend suggested I look into this site. I will graduate from college this spring, and the chances of my getting the higher paying job are great. My offers have already far exceeded what he has been offered. My major has always paid more than his; we are doing what makes us happy. I may be able to support his career so he can take more risks.
My boyfriend has said he will move where I decide, will be a househusband if needed, and will support my career. I feel I can go far as a woman with executive abilities. I asked him if he would take my last name as his own in marriage. I was surprised. He said, "Yes, I would with honor and pleasure." Are there a lot of guys who would take the subordinate role in a relationship? Dare I use the word "submissive"? What has been written here has pleased one college coed; perhaps the males will be the coeds of the future, will have the secondary place in the relationship, and will help re-establish matriarchy as a life.
I just met a college senior. His girlfriend graduated this past May and is already in the work force at a job that is paying $55,000 a year. That is where she started. He knows he will never be able to match that after his graduation. He is in education. He has realized that her career will dictate where they live. He may be the one who is at home when they have children. He is having to consider things that men ten years ago did not have to think about.
Michael, I am going to be doing the same in December. How are you coping with your subordinate status in public, with family, and friends? Most of the time, I do not care, but I know I am going to have to handle it during my marriage. I also read about your dinner party. How did you serve? Like so many others have said, you are leading the way for what many of us will also do. Please keep us informed. Are you having a church wedding? Will you use a female clergy person? That would seem to be only right.
End of Spousechat Archive Excerpt No. 1
(To be continued…)