Thursday, March 31, 2011

Starting Early on an FLR

A young man (in his twenties, I’d guess) just commented anonymously on a post from last September 9, Au876 on Financial Control, Part 2, and I enjoyed it so much that I decided to build a new post around it.

First, his comment in its entirety:

My girlfriend manages my finances. We aren't married (yet) and she makes a point to differentiate between manage and control. She set up two bank accounts for me. My name is on the account but she has signature authority over them. She is the only one that knows the on-line passwords.

I have a debit card for one account. We keep $250 in this account and it's primarily for emergency situations. Also, if I need to buy a big dollar item, something like airline tickets, she will transfer the money into the account to cover the cost.

My direct deposit goes into the other account. While it's still my account, I am not "allowed" access to it. We both know that the money is still mine, but she decides how it is spent. My portion of the bills are paid from this account as are my various loan payments (I still have car and student loan payments).

Every Monday, she gives me $100 in cash. But then every Monday evening, we go out and have dinner with three to four of her girl friends. They all know about our relationship and it's sort of a little ritual we have. She'll order something simple for me (a soup or salad) and I basically wait as they eat their meals and socialize. She'll signal me when it's my time to leave, and I'll pay the bill then go wait in the car.

My allowance is really what's left over from the $100 after paying for their dinners. It usually ends up being around $20 per week. Sometimes she'll encourage them to break their diets and order desserts. When she does that, I usually have to use money saved from the previous week to pay the bill. One time I didn't have enough surpluses from the previous week and had to use the debit card. She docked my allowance the two following weeks to replenish it.

She does occasionally take liberties with how she manages my money. She's occasionally informed me that I've “treated” her and one of her friends to session at the day spa. Then she'll point out that I spent the past three days at work so they could enjoy a couple hours of relaxation.

You've advised against allowing girlfriends financial control. But in my case, prior to her taking over, my finances were in the crapper (I was wasting money and was habitually late on credit cards and stuff). I'm also young enough that even if she does take everything, it's not as if I've got a whole lot of time invested in it. And like you and your wife, I really have no reason to not trust her. She seems to enjoy doing things to remind me how much control she has over me. And her enjoyment is what I have found ends up making me the happiest.

I also believe that since she owns my time, my employer is really paying her to have me work there.

And here is my enthusiastic reply:
Anonymous, I have to say that this is one of the most exciting comments this blog has seen in its three-plus years. Exciting especially because you are embarking on your FLR at such an early age, with so many delightful decades ahead of you if, as perhaps we both hope, your girlfriend consolidates her loving authority over you by taking you to husband.

Many, if not most of the FLR bloggers and commenters I’m familiar with seem to have converted to this lifestyle after many years of marriage, in their mid-forties, fifties and even beyond. Many seem to be empty-nesters, especially those who are privileged to live in an FLR 24/7. And I doubt not that most of them—I’m talking about guys now --would share my envy of you for coming so thoroughly under your girlfriend’s control so early.
I hope that you will comment or email in future, with updates about your evolving relationship. As I said, with so many years ahead, and your girlfriend demonstrating such a fertile imagination (like those Monday-night dinners with her girlfriends) in her “management” of you (as opposed to “control”), the possibilities ahead for both of you seem almost limitless… and truly exciting.

I also commend you for realizing how you are prospering under her judicious financial management—even if she does restrict you to a meager allowance. I would like to see a survey of just how many wives, whether in official wife-led marriages or out, take control of hubby’s paycheck, for exactly the reason that your girlfriend has done.

By the way, I don’t recall ever having advised against having a girlfriend take financial control. I have certainly read such advice, and understand the commonsensical reasons for it. As Lady Misato observed, “It is possible for a woman to exercise erotic power within a long-term non-marital arrangement but outside of marriage, there is a) a temptation on the part of the man to seek an easier resolution, and b) no committed relationship into which to invest.”

Finally, because I am so intrigued by your comment, and I want to share it with more of my blog followers, I propose to include it in a new post in the next day or so. Again, thank you, and keep us all posted!

As I reread Anonymous’ Comment, I was reminded of a young man who joined Lady Misato’s original Yahoo! Wife Worship husbands’ forum probably ten-plus years ago and shared his fledgling FLR… except that term didn’t exist at the time. Lady Misato called it “wifedom” or “courtship marriage.” This young bachelor, who signed himself “quasarableu2000,” used the common term, “femdom,” to describe his evolving relationship with his girlfriend. His postings created quite a stir, I can tell you, among our group of mostly 40-plus husbands.

I trust Lady Misato won’t object to my sharing a sampling of quasarbleu’s postings from all those years ago:

Hi, I'm new to the forum... I'm not married but in a serious relationship with a girl that opened my eyes to this site and many others. What can I do to make her happy, yet not smother her? Yesterday I gave her a pedicure and painted her nails. What else? We are both in college and money is tight for me. Any suggestions would be good, we are great friends… I'm not her slave, I'm her submissive boyfriend and her best friend, she's the dominant friend with a twist. I'm madly in love with her and she's madly in love with me. Thanks for any input and ideas.

Just wondering how you guys are coping with this lifestyle? I've had some serious trouble adjusting to this lately. At first the domination was light and has now progressed into a full-blown life of my long-term GF's domination. She said about a month ago she wanted things to progress to the next level. I had no idea what that was going to mean until now. My releases have gone from 3-4 a week to now less than 1, while I pleasure her nearly 2 or more times a day. The chastity tube that's on me has been sized and resized until it fit so perfect I can't get out of this thing. I've now been in this thing for 9 days, that's a long time when it’s real. My resistance to her domination is long gone after 48 hours! She has modified most of our relationship and I must admit I'm in heaven, but how do some of you who have the more domineering wives cope?

This has come to a slow progression, but I'm looking around now and I can't see how I could ever go back. Recently my long-term girlfriend told me that she was going to be decorating my apartment and organizing it so she could move in easily. Basically, she said in no uncertain terms that “her” apartment was going to need to be organized and I was going to have to help her maintain it. Her dominance grows slowly but almost like a snowball, once she was comfortable with her dominance in our relationship it started to take effect in many parts of our lives like this. All I can say is this, this is what most of us asked for and I’m happy.

My long term GF says and I quote “I enjoy the absolute submissive disposition you get when you are denied. Your thoughts are so easily manipulated by me, it's a lifestyle I want us to get used to.” She enjoys her erotic power more when it “works” and it only seems to work if she truly controls my orgasms.

Okay, so my girl friend calls me and asks me if I want to go to dinner with her twin sister and her sister’s roommate and go out for the night. Her twin sister’s roommate was telling my girlfriend’s sister that her ex-boyfriend was a womanizing asshole and that she needed to find a guy like me, who would worship & obey her like I do Jenny. Then Jenny pats me on the head and says something like, “I’ve turned him into this girls, don’t think he came this way.” Which is true in every respect. Then her sister looks at us and says with a smile, “Jenny, you womanize Jeff.” Then they all start laughing and the roommate says, “Oh my god yes, Jeff you do her laundry, clean her room for her, do her nails, the pedicures,” then she breaks down laughing because of the alcohol and embarrassment of the topic. Then Jenny say out loud, “Looks like the big secret is out, Jeffrey, everyone knows about us.” Anyways, I don’t know what to think now, I feel so embarrassed. Does she have the right to do this to me?”

[I include here the answer to this query from my old friend, Au876: “Dear quasarbleu2000, I can understand why you would be embarrassed but YES, she does have the right to do that to you. All she has done is let some of her friends know about the relationship you enjoy with her. It put you in a rather humble position but I suspect you enjoyed it to some extent. You should be proud she brags on you to her friends. You can almost bet your bottom dollar they envy her.”]

quasarbleu2000 (continuing)
It's very common for girls my age to be the dominant one in the relationship and for that position to be stated and understood. Now don't take my statement to mean “More girls are into femdom relationships,” because I don't think they see them in that way. I think women in general, in my era are becoming less submissive as a whole. Several of my female friends are in what we would consider femdom relationships, they just don't call them that. To them, it's a normal relationship, they are in charge of it, and that's how all their relationships since they hit puberty have been.

Well, my GF told me that she wants me to start checking with her before I buy anything large from now on. Also, she mentioned that she wants to start looking at my paychecks and bills, seems as though she is interested in controlling my money more so than before. She is interested in a joint-checking. I didn't even think banks would do that unless two people were married. It’s obvious she wants us to get married sometime, and she's trying to get me ready for what it will be like, well so she says. Frankly, the idea turns me on. Truth is, I'm horrible with money, while I make great money even while in school, I manage it like total crap. I trust her with everything, my heart first and foremost, my money also. I'm content with her control, it's all the more real this way. (End of Excepts)

Quasarbleu2000, are you still out there? If so, could we have an update?


subservient-husband said...

Mr. Remond,

reading your post made me realize. Folks who start out younger tend to have a woman in a commanding position. Couples who x-fer after a decade of marriage tend to have the wife a reluctant participant. It seems pretty much true for the people I meet in the blog-o-sphere in the lifestyle. It seems most healthy to begin in FemDom at the start, if that is an option. For me it just wasn't, as there was too much societal influence to comply with an egalitarian standard. It took a decade to cut through that influence. At least for me it did.


Daniel said...

I work and live in Shanghai and many parts of China. I am seeing more and more younger woman are in command and control of their relationship. Their husbands just hand them their pay check and it the man that does the house work.

Chinese Woman are becoming more successful and earning more then their husband.

Family now prefers daughters then son except in the village.

Mark Remond said...

Daniel, thank you for the FLR update from China, very encouraging. Not long ago, I believe, your fellow commenter, subservient-husband, wrote about the Mosuo matriarchal culture in China, where things go better with women in control.

Elle said...

My fiance and I are giving FLR-lite a go, and so far we quite like it - though I can't claim to be as confident as the ladies you outlined above. Because SH asked, there are a few reasons I think younger women (my generation) might be more confident exploring FLR dynamics than my mother's generation: First, a generally more open-minded approach to sex (be it power dynamics, sex toys, or costumes), plus less of a tendency to characterize men as dominant so there isn't the submissive = sissy fallacy that seems to turn a lot of women off in the beginning (at least from what I've been reading).

I don't know that any of my friends have a formal arrangement (and they wouldn't know that we do), but even though they are in their relationships as "equals", it's pretty clear that the women have the final word.

Anonymous said...

I notice the younger females don't think of themselves as dominant. This is something I think we need to accept.

Husbands here call themselves submissive, when they are really obedient. The male gender is created to be naturally obedient. In school they need to be disciplined to be obedient. Girls are more well behaved, not necessarily obedient though. After school men (in the past) went into military and learned obedience. In jobs, men learn to be obedient. Men need to be obedient to someone and their wives are the ones to lead and discipline them.

Women in the younger generation naturally accept their control over men. It is not something they look for or read about. It comes naturally to girls. Young men need obedience in their lives and obedience to girls comes naturally to them. Boys today understand female superiority is natural.

There is nothing wrong for a boy to allow his girlfriend to do what she wants with his money, even if it means paying the bill when she goes out with her friends. This should be expected when they marry.

Mark Remond said...

Beckiesue, I agree, but you know that... I've been hoping to see you post here again. If you check out the last 2 comments under "Guest Post: Wife Worship & Female Superiority, Part 2" you will find another commenter asking you a few questions, which you may or may not wish to respond to. Here is the URL:

And, of course, I'm hoping for a way to contact you again! You have developed quite a following, and I'm the leader of the pack.

I'm-Hers said...

Great posts. I love the variety of perspectives written here from the thoughts on China, to Ms. Elle's perspective as a younger Domme, to SH's thoughts about delaying the transition to a D/s.

Thanks for the post Mark and thanks to the young submissive man that wrote you such a fine perspective of how his dominant controls his finances.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mark

I've followed your blog for several years now and this ones great :) and not just because you used the pic I use on SMTR site for the first time :)

Did u get it from there or find it else where ? (Gut kissing the girls feet)

Cheers SK1111

Anonymous said...

Goodness, I wasn't really expecting a whole post around about my response.

Your assumption is correct as we are both still in our early 20's. My girlfriend has said that she's not even going to consider marriage until she has been out of school for at least a year. So getting to that stage is at least two years away.

Even if we do get married, I do not know how much of this aspect of our relationship will continue as it is. We're still both young and still evolving (i.e. growing). I don't know really how practical it would be to live this way if we are trying to raise kids and stuff.

My previous comment was regarding the financial matters, so I only mentioned how my finances are in much better shape under her tutelage. I can attest to improvements in just about every aspect of my life since I've started dating her.

With regards to the discouragement of handing over financial control to a girlfriend, I went back and saw that it was actually Au876’s advice and not yours. Sorry for the confusion.

In reading quasarbleu2000’s story, I can see a lot of similarity between his experiences and mine. Like him, I use to have a lot of sex early on in our relationship. After she enrolled me into a chastity regimen, that frequency dropped from a typical five per week down to two to three times a week and finally to where I now average about once every two weeks. She started with the excuse that it was to curb my masturbation problem, but we both know now that she had other plans.

Like his girlfriend, mine also has modified our relationship over time (in case it was not already obvious). On their own, I would not have gone along with pretty much any of them. However, she was able to predicate each of them on her controlling the key. That is a tremendous motivator.

Also like him, it was my girlfriend who ‘outted’ me. She basically pantsed me in front of one of her friends and then made me stand there while she demonstrated how it works. Once we were alone, she reprimanded me for attempting to resist her saying [paraphrasing], “Look, you don’t have any right to privacy any more. What use to be your privacy is now my prerogative; if I wanna show your junk to my friends, that’s for me to decide, not you. Besides, you have to admit you were turned on by that, weren’t you?” I had to confess that even though I was scared at first, I actually was turned on.

If I can get her permission, I will recount the events of this past weekend and Monday night’s dinner [it takes a couple days before she answers such requests].

Mark Remond said...

sk111, thanks. I can't recall where I "borrowed" that image, but I mean no harm.

Elle, it's a privilege to have your comment, and to learn of your elegant new blog. Like "Mr. Elle," I delight in giving my wife pedicures. I predict many blissful interactions, and hope you will share with me again.

And, of course, welcome back, Anonymous. You have indeed caused a tremor in the Force hereabouts. Many of us, I know, await your further updates eagerly, and with an understandable envy.

As for child-rearing, there are certainly ways to continue the FLR lifestyle, not only to the non-detriment of the children, but ultimately, I believe, to their advantage. Subservient-husband has been writing about this. I, however, seem to be a little shy about opening the topic, though it certainly interests me, with now two teenagers to cope with on a daily basis.

Mark Remond said...

Anonymous, when I mentioned that subservient-husband has been writing about rearing children in an FLR home, I neglected somehow to mention that Beckie Sue has shared her ideas on this matter... most of which you can find in her two guest posts.

KIRCEDES said...


i say wowza wow

That is incredible, Thank you for all you put into it and for taking time to share the comment with us all.

Anonymous said...

As a mid-twenties obedient husband myself, I can say that female authority is without a doubt becoming more and more common, and more and more out in the open. The authority figure may not be explicit, and the obedience may not be as automatic as in a formal FLR, but I think it's clear that women are more and more exercising their newfound economic power and freedom. "Equal say" in a relationship seems like the starting point nowadays. Women now outnumber men in college attendance, and young professional women are beginning to outearn their male peers. I feel like people under 35 are on the cusp of a truly generational change, one that might be even more explicit for the up-and-coming generation, where the image of the breadwinning wife and the kept man is increasingly simply the way things are.

Mark Remond said...

Anonymous, your comment makes me wish I could start all over again and be part of that new female-led generation of young guys.

Anonymous said...


The nice thing is, you get to benefit from the change in culture as much as the younger generation. It took me a little while to realize that being openly deferential and loving in public wasn't judged as "unmanly", but respected and even envied. I think that this is good for us all.

I'm 26 myself, and find myself occasionally envying the upcoming generation (when I expect it female leadership will be the expected standard) but then I try to catch myself and realize that I'm just happy to be a part of the movement... you guys were the pioneers, and without your help this never could have happened.

ALL HERS said...

Hi Mark;

My wife and I have been away for almost a month. Just finished catching up on your great posts, and once again you wrote a gem. So far 16 comments.

How lucky a man can be to start very early a WLM or FLR. Reading this recent topic had me thinking way back to my teen and early 20 years. Girls always had the upper hand, and the prettier they were the more us boys would fall over them. They would always be the one to say what movie we would see, or where else we would go. If they wanted to go to the beach on a weekend, the girls just told us guys, "take me to the beach tomorrow". Boys usually did what their girlfriends told them to do because of the promise of sex. Some things just haven't changed. If we pleased our girlfriend, we may get to feel her up, get a bj, or get the grand prize. Our hormones were raging, and these young girls could satisfy us if we did as we were told.

Fast forward to today, when some of these young girls grew up to marry, they now had the experience that they could control their men by sex, or to be exact--denying it. That is how my wife and I started.

A young couple today who have decided that the woman is to be dominant in their relationship, in my opinion, will have many, many wonderful years together. Their interest in each other will keep growing, and so will their marriage or relationship. A wife who denies her husband sex for long periods keeps him hot and interested, and willing to do anything to please her. What a great way to start off together.
I see some men today, older and young, who do the macho act. "No woman is going to tell me what to do"! How foolish. If we had a society where all women dominanted their men, think about how much calmer everything would be. A wife would be responsible to discipline her husband should he misbehave or not treat her with repect. In pilgrim times a man could have his wife put into the stocks for a day or longer because she talked back to him or didn't do her chores properly. Think of turning that around. A wife could have her husband put into the stocks, or even whipped in public for the same reasons. Interesting concept I believe. The world would be a better place.

ALL HERS said...

After I read my above post, I thought I would tell you some of the early experiences of my wife and I.

We are now retired and have a 24/7 WLM. Yes, a dream come true for me. But in our early years we knew something was there, but seldom acted on it. With children to bring up, attend their sporting events and school events, careers, family obligations and of course maintaining a home, there wasn't a whole lot of time to develop a WLM. But it started and grew. She cleaned the house then, although I did help. Now I do all of the housework, washing clothes, ironing and prepare most meals.

A young couple today, if they know early that they want a WLM or FLR, they can work on it until the children come along. Then it will drop off somewhat, although it will still be a part of their lifestyle when alone together.

For example,when our children were school age,3 or 4 times a year we would arrange a day off during the week together when they were at school. We called it slave day, with me always as my wife's slave. She had me wear only a pair of her panties( a larger pair that came with her babydoll nighties). (I now have about 40 pair of my own panties that I wear 24/7, I have no mens underwear.) She wore her dom outfit, bra, panties, garter belt, stockings, and high heels, all black. She also carried a small whip. I had to clean the entire house, scrub bathrooms and floors. She would stand over me, find something wrong or show me a spot I missed and then swing her whip across my ass 10 to 20 times. When every thing was done to her high standards, I wasn't done. I was led to the bedroom for some more punishment. My wrists were tied to the bedposts and then she brought my legs over my head and tied them securely to the bedposts also. (I was more flexible then). She would tease me by rubbing me and telling me slaves never get to come, so don't expect to. Then she would tell me how I could have done the housework better, and to make sure I remember I was going to get whipped again. Maybe 30 to 50 lashes of her whip across my ass. It hurt so much, but the view of her in her dom outfit swinging a whip offset the pain. So much so that I really had to hold back so I wouldn't cum. She probably would not have minded if I did, she wasn't into denial like she is today. She always saw how aroused I was and the large amount of precum on the panties I was wearing. So when we began our full time WLM a few years ago, I mentioned that she could always whip me if I needed to be punished. She lauhed and said that she always could see how much I enjoyed her whippings by just looking at my cock. "No, that is not punishment for you, it's foreplay. Many times you almost shot off." So instead I must do corner time, get tied up in her closet, do extra housework( the same job over again) and of course have weeks or months added to my wait time, which is 6 weeks minimum. She loves to add weeks for the slightest infraction. Smart woman, the hornier a man is the better his behavior. After I cum (as seldom as that is) my submissive feelings subside for a couple of days, and she doesn't like that at all.

Hope some of you younger guys out there may do the same. You are already on the right road to marital happiness by starting your WLM so early in life. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

ALL HERS, you have it all! I want to ask you though, was your wife the one who thought up the slave days because she was dominant then? I would like to have my wife do that to me now as we are married 7 years.

Does your wife make you wear panties all of the time? You said you have about 40 pairs , so I am guessing she does. Are they hers?

It is so good to exchange ideas here and to see how other men have gotten their wives to take control.But I say, you must be very horny all of the time since she makes you wait so long. How do you stand it?

Anonymous said...

I had forgotten how a 100 years ago a woman was property to a man. He owned her like a farm animal. And he could have her in the stocks when he wanted. I can imagine today if my wife told me to do something and I said later i'm watching a football game. Next Sunday I would be dressed only in pink panties in the stocks for the day. That would teach us a lesson.

Anonymous said...

[My comments here seem to be getting deleted. Google's been having some blog difficulty and I didn't know if my comment would reappear or not. So I'm reposting this in case previous posts have been lost in the ether]

It’s been a while since my last comment. I’ve wanted to fill you in on what happened on that Monday’s get together. She seems to have taken my comments as more license to treat my money as hers while leaving me with even less of it.

Our normal Monday evening dinners are five to six of us. That Monday she invited six of her sorority sisters and friends to join us and had picked one of the pricier places. So that was seven dinners, drinks, deserts and with tax and tip put the total up near $200 for the night.

She only gives me $100 a week and she had strategically left me with only a little more than a dollar after we had gone shopping that weekend (I stuck a comment describing that adventure in one of your earlier blogs at -- and since reposted in your latest blog entry), so I had to ‘borrow’ money from the other account to make up for the shortfall. I’ve spent the past couple of weeks working and scrimping to pay back the money I borrowed.

I also apologize for taking so long to post, but things have been busy for me and she doesn’t always consent to my internet time.

Anonymous said...

MMMM $100 a week and you have to feed usually at least 5 people.Twenty dolars each on average.They must all be waif like models or you have found some very cheap restaurants.

As to the day of pampering paid for by 3 days hard work well thats lovely too.It gives a male a chance to show his submission to the superior gender without any romantic or overtly sexual entanglement though I am sure it gladdens the submissive soul.

If a male is giving up his money to his lover then he will have to impress her in other ways.

Greater companionship,better sex,an easing or elimination of her workload etc etc.

He will pay more attention to his grooming to please her eye and maybe nose.

If in the past males power lay in the ability to provide financial rsources (itself a product of patriarchy in which males earned an earn far more than Womyn) then he does still provide security in that he will hand it over entirely to his superior.

If males because hey will be getting increasingly less well paid than their Female counterparts cannot impress with a new flash car or payment for holidays or dinner will have to impress by other means.Being able to cook well,entertain and be a companion.


Anonymous said...

Another thing that occured to me is that having an obedient male who pays for freinds whether it be financialy or in time and services will make the owner of such a male more influential and important in her circle of freinds.

Also if she has a man prepared to take on his allotted role in the house and marriage she will have far more time for socialising and becomign popular with her friends.


m said...

Thanks for the post, I like controlling my husband and you've given me lots of things to think about.

Anonymous said...

The Monday dinners weren't really at fancy restaurants. They're typically someplace like TGI Fridays or Cocos or something like that. The extend of my meal was usually just sharing in on appetizers or would be something minimal, so my meal didn't really add in a whole lot. The tabs typically ended up being between $70 and $80.

With it being summer now, most of her friends and sorority sisters have gone back home. It's much like a ghost town here till school starts up again.

Although the distinction might not seem to be there, she technically doesn't take my money or my paycheck. The accounts are still in my name. What she does do is control my budget. My history of financial management has been spotty, so she has agreed to help me get my finances in order. When she decides that I'm treating them to a session at the day spa or paying for the dinners, it's because those are things that a boyfriend would normally buy for his girlfriend.

Where our financial set up differs from a 'normal' one is that I am not in the decision loop when it comes to buying her these spa sessions or stuff like that. The decision making process is totally within her realm. She also keeps the on-line banking passwords and account numbers. The only way I could access the account without her would be if I drove back to her hometown (about three hrs away) and walking into one of the branches there (the accounts are at a local bank there).

And yes, she uses my labor/time to free up more of her leisure time and to earn points with her friends. But, that's a whole nother topic unto itself.

Sarah her slave. said...

I know this is an old thread but the issue of starting young is fundamental to the future.
I have been Hers for 35 years. I had submitted to Her before we married and have been her devoted sub hubby ever since.
My revelation is I hope encouraging.
We are bringing up 4 grandchildren, 3 of whom are girls. They know that I wear panties as Mistress insists upon that. I do housework and obey Her automatically. 2 of the girls have made it very clear that they will demand the same from any future boyfriends.
The future is bright. The future is female led.

Mark Remond said...

Sarah her slave - thank you for that enlightening and encouraging comment!