Thursday, November 20, 2014

dennis: PRE-WEDDING AGREEMENTS

One of the things that often comes up in discussions with Women moving along the path to a Female Led Relationship is prenuptial agreements. We advise Women contemplating marriage to consult an attorney about a prenuptial arrangement. For a couple contemplating an FLR, a prenuptial agreement can definitely further the desires of each party, in that it can firmly establish Her control and his responsibilities.

As we’ve noted often in our posts, financial control is one of the key tenets of an FLR. A Woman we both know, who i will call Jane, followed our advice and, before She ever called a wedding planner, spoke with an attorney; after all, she decided, no agreement, no wedding! With the help of the attorney and some inputs from others, Jane put together and got her fiance’s approval on a prenuptial agreement. There was no negotiation of the terms. Briefly some of the non-negotiable items in Jane’s agreement were as follows:

§  Jane retains sole ownership over property and money She brought into the marriage
§  bob’s accounts was transferred to Jane
§  Jane is solely responsible for finances
§  Credit card accounts are in Jane’s name only; bob’s have been closed
§  bob’s car was transferred to, and immediately sold by, Jane
§  Assets bob might later inherit will be transferred to Jane

In addition, an addendum to the agreement stipulated that:
§  Jane has the right to have bob take Her name (she has not yet exercised this option); Jane will not take bob’s name
§  bob accepts responsibility for all housework and for “tasks and responsibilities” She may add
§  bob recognizes Jane’s right to her own social circles, some of which may not include him

Nancy and i had a prenuptial agreement, too. It was drawn up by Nancy and her mother Sue two days before we married. Like Jane’s, it was take-it-or-leave-it with some of the same items noted above. This may seem restrictive to an outsider, but it ensured my lifestyle. In our prenup, i recognized my Wife’s authority, Her entitlement to Her friends, and the “special position” of Sue within our household.

And, indeed, my Mother-in-law, Sue, does have a special position. i defer to Her as i would to Nancy. Indeed, Sue is included in my vows. i agreed to “love, honor, worship, and obey Her, showing all deference:

§  i love this strong assertive Woman and tell Her so;
§  i honor Her by showing my deference in dress, word, and action and by listening to Her every pronouncement;
§  i worship Her by prostrating myself before Her, heeding Her wisdom, and showing Her homage;
§  i obey Her by immediately, acknowledging Her commands and carrying them out to the letter.

Nancy of course is the head of our household, but with Her long hours at Her job She delegates much of the day-to-day management of things to Her Mother, Sue.  Sue is very much in charge, and i respond to Her exactly as i would Nancy. Sue has authority and exercises it; She can command and correct and does so!

Nancy and I have subsequently renewed our vows three times and each time modified our agreement. The last profession of our vows was to align ourselves with the teachings of our new Woman-centric congregation. My renewed vows included one of fidelity as well as one processing my loyalty to Sue. i was excited that Nancy modified our agreement to include – like Jane – Her option to have me take Her name. i’ve long fantasized about this, going so far as to think that when the time came, i’d like to hyphenate, although i recognized that that choice would be Nancy’s. i have discussed it with Sue as well, and She seemed favorably disposed. i thought that including it in the agreement was a prelude to my making a name change – but it wasn’t, for as Nancy announced to the crowd, She didn’t think i deserved such an honor. Yes, this was humiliating, but it’s good to be put in one’s place on occasion.


d

26 comments:

I'm-Hers said...

Dennis, I assume, that like Jane, you have given Nancy full ownership of your assets. Should the unthinkable happened and Nancy die before you does she have things arranged so that you become the owner of all that she possesses? For the sake of discussion let's assume that Sue is no longer in the picture either. Would love to hear hell Nancy worked out this scenario which unfortunately is all too common. My guess would be that she would want for you to inherit all that she owns, assuming you have no children, especially daughters. In that case my assumption would be that assets would be transferred to your girls with enough given to you to keep you comfortable.

Alex said...

Hi everyone,

I'm sorry to "interrupt" with this very, very important question.

There is a piece of Femdom literature called "Ariana's Scandal". It was online for years, the most gorgeous amazing Female Dominated Utopian literature -- by an anonymous author only known as Elisabeth. She didn't answer for years but her story, as well as E if For Eclectic, another Femdom blog she had, was up.

Does ANYONE know where to find these? They're apparently just not up anymore!

PLEAAAASE??!?!?!

I should have copy pasted and saved them!

HH said...

Hi Dennis,

You wrote in this article about prenuptial agreement but seems to me that the same effect has postnuptial agreement, right?

In the end some couples discover this lifestyle already being during the marriage.

I also personally believe that this type of agreement cements the power of the wife.

Every marriage thinking seriously about FLR should think about it, why? Because legally, with the full consequences man becomes dependent on his wife, and the wife with a taste of that power only begin to develop from bossy wife to a (very)strict bossy wife

Anonymous said...

I would think that if Nancy dies first, rather than inheriting Her posssessions, dennis would be treated as a possession, he would either be willed to Nancy's Female Heir as part of the Estate, or perhaps Nancy might make a specific bequest of dennis to another Woman. (lawslave)

Mark Remond said...

dennis responds to HH:

Yes, this applies to post-nuptial agreements, too. In our case it was a prenuptial since Nancy and Her Mother made all the arrangements beforehand. i was presented with the agreement before the wedding - take it or leave it. There never was any question that i'd sign the agreement since it cemented the relationship i had going forward with the lifestyle we both wanted. We have an agreement that assigns our roles and covers housework, career priorities, confirms Nancy's authority and money management and so on. It also recognizes Sue's special status within our overall relationship. In addition we agreed that Nancy is the sole owner of all property so immediately after our vows and before our honeymoon we had my car, a small piece of property, and some accounts all transferred to Nancy.

The agreement certainly does cement the Woman's power. And it goes on. Cars are titled in Her name - even 'my car' and when i inherited another small piece of property, it, too, was transferred to Nancy. Coupes wanting an FLR should consider such arrangements too, as you say, to "cement the Woman's power." Oh, and as a reminder, things like property transfers are best done after consulting a lawyer who can make the arrangements.

d

Mark Remond said...

dennis responds to I'm Hers:

You are correct, we have an agreement very similar to Jane's. The situation you envision assumes that men are capable of managing money - this is not one of Nancy's assumptions. Nancy has never discussed these arrangements with me but from what i learned from Sue there will be trust accounts set up for me and managed by Women in the family. This ensures i don't overspend or invest in questionable ventures, etc.

d

tony said...

Concerning the situation where the wife predeceases the husband - we do not have a contract, but we have discussed the situation even though it is unlikely as my wife is 20 years younger. She has made it clear that she does not want me to remarry or be involved with another woman. However, she is also concerned that I am properly cared for as I age and become in need of assistance. Lawslave makes an interesting point concerning a way to handle Dennis' life after Nancy. I would urge my wife to think about this as a solution in our case. She may have a friend whom she trusts and admires, and who would be willing to assume the control and care of me, or she may seek out such a person and plan a program in case she does die first. She may think this idea makes sense, or at least could be explored. One concern, I know, would be a hesitancy in revealing very private information about our lifestyle, more than any friend may presently know about, but she would want to be assured that I would continue under a responsible woman's strict control. As in everything else, she will make the decisions and I will abide by them.

Bill Feder said...

Awesome! I want my wife's dominance and control spelled out in a contract. I suppose we could do it now. Our matriarchal arrangement should be legally recognized, after all.

Anonymous said...

..one marvels at the naiviete displayed here....the basic assumption nothing will ever go wrong in the relationship...

Alex said...

How was Thanksgiving?

Mark Remond said...

dennis' wife, Ms. Nancy, responds to Kathy's comment:

Kathy,

You are so right that the Internet is full of women looking to take advantage of men with money. Further, I'm convinced that men as a group are poor money managers – Dennis is!

Dennis is a professional and has a good career with good earnings, earnings that I've controlled and managed. Dennis has little if any familiarity with our household finances or budgeting and doesn't really care about it. He's a manager at a software company but leaves his power at the door when he comes home; I give the orders here and he's very comfortable with this. Apparently he gets enough leadership at work. Just as you said, I don't think Dennis could manage without oversight. Thinking long term, setting up a trust was the answer in my case. I am not a lawyer but will strongly suggest you consult one about your specific situation. Sounds like you are on the right track with a trust administered by your daughter, though.

There are many reasons for a trust, but two that stand out for me include it allowing me to control the manner in which funds were distributed to protect against my husband's spendthrift ways. Also a trust is a private document where a will is public. The latter provides some protection from someone finding about inherited assets and targeting my husband.

Briefly what I did was to set up a trust fund for his benefit as a part of my will that will be administered by women in my family. These women include my mother, two aunts, and my niece. Without belaboring the details, the Women will have the responsibility of managing the trust and providing Dennis with income and financial supervision. He understands the financial supervision part and likes the idea. I think my husband would be very uncomfortable with receiving a large sum of money. The woman supervising the trust will receive a yearly fee from it for their efforts.

Trusts are complicated, so please do contact an attorney since this a legal issue and will have to handled accordingly. There may also be tax implications.

Not sure whether this will be useful but in our case all the property is under my name. Shortly after we were married we used an inter-spousal transfer to give me sole ownership of his car and a small property he had. When he inherited some property years later we did the same. Seems that this made things a little less complicated.

Setting up a trust for his benefit has taken care of financial things but I have lifestyle concerns I'm looking to solve, too. I put a lot of structure around things for Dennis and it's an important part of his life; I'm not sure how he'd react to that control suddenly going away. Perhaps he could go on with his routine but that's not a practical thinking since he regularly needs a strong hand to set him back on course. My aunts, both widows, are familiar with our lifestyle and I'm exploring their perhaps taking him in – you have to have a plan. Finally looking really long term, were Dennis to pass, what becomes of the trust? I don't want a potentially large sum of money going to my niece. So I'm looking for a legacy and am thinking of providing an endowment to the women's studies program of a local university.

Hope this helps!

N

tony said...

Ms Nancy, If i may comment? Your plan makes a lot of sense. However, with your Mother and Aunts as three of the four trustees, chances are they will pre-decease you, leaving your neice as sole trustee. This may be perfectly acceptable, but risky. Maybe one or two younger, professional women that you and she know and respect, and who are aware of your special relationship with dennis, should be something to consider?

Mark Remond said...

dennis responds to tony's comment above:

You have made erroneous assumptions regarding the age of Nancy's Aunts.

d

tony said...

Dennis,
Oops, my apologies.
tony

Anonymous said...

Alex, try the Wayback Machine at archive.org.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140602215412/http://femaleutopia.blogspot.com/2008/05/arianas-scandal-part-four-ceremony.html

Alex said...

Fantastic! Thanks anonymous!
Who else likes this story?

I think we should all copy paste it and keep a personal copy. As long as you are not selling it I don't think there would be a problem with just copy pasting it for yourself if it's being shown online for free anyway.

Alex said...

I'm thinking December is kind of a month when people blog less, shop more, and kind of ponder about the past, the future and find themselves in traffic jams more often.
However, I'd like to ask a question for y'all. Being it the holiday season (for those who celebrate something), how would this season look in a totally Matriarchal world?

Kathy said...

I enjoyed reading the post as well as the comments.

In the real world it takes a great deal of courage for a man to surrender his financial freedom to another person. Once again, there are women who are more than willing to take advantage of these men. In the real world women are not always the perfect angels they are made out to be on the blogs.

For the moment I would like to give Alex an answer to his question. In a matriarchal world men would have less time to watch sports, and even less time to play on the computer. Many of the blogs would disappear because men would have little time to write them or read them.

In more of a matriarchal world a man's place may be in the home, but it is doing house work and chores for mistress rather than playing.

In a femdom community men have less time to play. They are often busy with less glamorous activities such as child care.
Everyone who reads Femdom 101 wants to know about my son-in-law.
A typical evening for the submissive man in a femdom relationship often involves child care and changing diapers. Not very much fun, but a needed service for mistress.

In a real matriarchal world a man may take an afternoon off to take his wife's mother to the doctor.
Again, not very much fun, but the type of assistance a busy female executive may require.

What I could caution Alex, or any man contemplating a true femdom relationship is that the giving up of one's freedom is a big step.

Love, Kathy

Anonymous said...

I'm 26, and my wonderful wife is 35. Our marriage, which began two years ago, has always been an FLR. My wife is a very successful businesswoman with an MBA. She originally sought me out, because she wanted an attractive (sorry to be vain) younger man to be her househusband. I was instantly enamored by her confidence and assertiveness, and I have always acquiesced to her authority.

Early on, from our very first date, she made it clear that she would control the finances. She always paid for the dates in full. When we took our first weekend trip together, she made all the arrangements and payments...and she temporarily confiscated my wallet to make it clear that she was in control.

After marriage, I completely surrendered everything to her. The aspects of this include:

(1) My paycheck (about 1/3 of hers) is deposited into her bank account, which I have absolutely no access to.
(2) Everything is in her name - the house, the cars, the accounts, etc. I have no assets.
(3) I must request her permission to buy anything beyond my modest weekly allowance. She usually says yes to reasonable requests, but she occasionally exercises her authority by saying no without explanation. For example, I recently approached her (naked, as she usually requires me) to ask for an extra $25 to buy a new pair of jeans. She looked up from her desk work, considered for a moment, and then firmly said "no" with a confident smirk and no further explanation. This took me surprise, but her unlimited power was arousing - I quickly became erect before her eyes. Her smirk broadened into a victorious smile.
(4) Financial control really does cement female authority. When I know she controls me financially, I strive so much harder to please her - in my job, in my housework, and especially in the bedroom. The more I please her in bed, the more generous she is with my allowance. It's all about power.

Mark Remond said...

To Anonymous, just above --

I've forwarded this to dennis, and imagine he will comment favorably. But let me get my favorable word in first -- and invite you to share any additional glimpses into your FLR your wife might permit, either as comments or, even better, as guest posts. And, of course, I would welcome anything your "wonderful wife" might wish to say here. You can reach me by email at markremond@yahoo.com

Mark Remond said...

dennis responds to Anonymous 2 above ("I'm 26..."):

Thank you for your comment - you obviously have a happy marriage and wonderful lifestyle.

Nancy and i, as well as other couples we know, have a similar lifestyle, a lifestyle that has Her in complete financial control which Nancy described in earlier posts on controlling finances. Nancy provides me with a generous allowance and i can ask for more, although my receiving more money is Her decision and Her decision is final. i can also ask Sue, my Mother-In-Law for money - for gifts for Nancy for example. Sue usually provides me the money i need but it has to be repaid with interest. Borrow $100 and i'll have to pay Sue five payments of $25 or whatever Her terms are. Of the FLR couples - and many of the non-FLR couples - all have situations where the Woman controls the household finances and all are happy with the arrangement.

d

Anonymous said...

In an FLR family are there rules on the children as well? I believe a Woman posted in the comments a while ago that She had two Daughters and a son. The son did minor yard work or manual labor outside the home for neighbors. One comment that came up was that his earnings should go to his Sisters who get to purchase something for Themselves then a portion goes to the boy for him to spend on himself. Do you suggest getting boys exposed early on to think of the Women in their life once they begin earning money? Or should that only come once dating begins? - Jack

Anonymous said...

Mark - I am the anonymous ("I'm 26...") poster above. I would to write a blog post (or two) for you, and my wife concurs! I will send you an email. The experience of writing and posting for the world to see would serve to deepen my submission.

Mark Remond said...

To Anonymous just above:

I am delighted that your wife has consented for you to write a guest post or two (or three or...?) for the Wife Worship blog. I know my readers will be rewarded with whatever she lets you share of your exciting female-ascendant lifestyle, and I, too, believe that the process will serve tp deepen your submission to her. I look forward to hearing from you!

Mark Remond said...

PS to Anonymous - If you see this, may I request you use the following email address:

markremond@gmail.com

I am suspending my Yahoo! email address.

BOB said...

Ive mentioned before that more and more of my male friends getting married, haave been forbidden by their bride-to-be from having a bachelor party.Or from having one involving female strippers.But these same brides-to-be end up having a bachelorette party involving male strippers.

I think that more and more women will use pre-wedding activities to stress their dominance